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Comment by wil421 | Hacker News Reader

Why do American (and presumably westerners) vegetarians want to replace meat? I hated vegan and vegetarian food for song long until I ate meat free Indian food. It was always the meat replacements like veggie patties and tofurkey type products that turned me away.

Indian food doesn’t have some weird mystery replacement I find on almost every vegan or veggie dish. I had a conversation with and Indian colleague who lives in the states and she agreed a lot of veggie/vegan food is just plain weird.

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I'm sure this is unintentional, but be aware that denigradting immitation meat products is a common source of bullying directed at people transitioning towards plant based diets.

Our food cravings adapt to what our bodies identify as having the nutrients we need. Most people who eat a plant based diet for 5-10 years rarely eat meat replacements. But in the beginning, these replacements are great for people that are still learning meal planning. Outside of that, some people have health issues, like cholesterol, where replacing some of their meat intake with immitation meats can be beneficial. Others like to reduce their carbon footprint by eating occassional plant based meals. These individuals do not experience the change in cravings and taste so they still appreciate the taste and texture of something similar to the meat they still consume at other meals.

To put some quantitative analysis on that, while sales of immitation meat products have increased significantly, we are not seeing significant increases in the number of US residents identifying as vegan(strict vegetarian) and only modest increases in those identifying as vegetarian. This means that much of the immitation meat consuption is done by those that are still eating an animal protein based diet.

Anecdotally, I am not a huge fan of those products and also find most traditional bean and root vegetable based meals more satisfying. But please keep in mind that many people are navigating their way towards a different way of eating and they can be very sensitive to harse words about their choices.

Vegans and vegetarians aren't as much of the target market for these products as you think.

The market for these products is really omnivores who enjoy meat yet would prefer it to be made without the animal suffering and ecological footprint of meat if such a thing were available. You're never going to get the sort of market share these companies are looking for with only vegans and vegetarians - there simply isn't enough of them.

The vegetarian-curious also really don't need people bullying them about their food choices, that's unnecessary

> I hated vegan and vegetarian food ... it was always the meat replacements like veggie patties and tofurkey type products that turned me away... weird mystery replacement I find on almost every vegan or veggie dish

Completely unfair characterization of "vegan and vegetarian food." I've been a (western) vegetarian for close to two decades and commercial meat replacements are not an have never been a large part of my diet. I eat them MAYBE a few times a year, pretty much exclusively at cookouts.

That being said, that seems to have changed with the Impossible Whopper - that tastes pretty good and has a nice texture, I can see myself ordering that again.

I love Indian food, Thai food, Ethiopian food, various Mediterranean options, etc already. That doesn't mean I don't want even more options.

Especially it would be great to evolve the current US food culture to be vegetarian as well. There is a lot of culture around food that is not just purely about it being tasty food. As a teen, we'd make dumb late night runs to the drive through. We grilled burgers and dogs on Memorial Day. We'd order Pizza and Wings while watching football.

A lot of these traditions were manufactured to begin with and could be wholesale replaced by other food cultures, sure. A lot of people want to change their impact on animal suffering/the environment without 100% swapping out these cultural memories too. I think that's perfectly fair.

Sure I eat Indian food weekly, but it's comforting to feel part of your broader food culture and connected to your childhood rather than needing to avoid all the places your peers frequent.

Because meat-products are inseperable from our food culture in many places.

I'm from NC, so to me "BBQ" means something very specific and that meaning is a point of cultural pride. We like to trash talk our neighbors based on the sauce they use (eastern NC is vinegar-base, Western is ketchup-base, and South Carolina is mustard-based) but we still all agree that the meat is pulled or chopped pork. In Texas and Kansas City they call brisket and ribs "BBQ", and in other places, "BBQ" can just mean a outdoor get-together with anything grilled!

All that is to say that, becoming vegan or vegetarian in NC means losing a fun part of your culture if you throw out meat alternatives. Luckily, there are enterprising folks making amazing meat-free alternatives that still feel authentic to NC-style BBQ (I highly recommend "Fiction Kitchen" in Raleigh for eastern-style).

I can't wait for more Carolina BBQ vegan options. Fiction Kitchen's is good, though more chopped than pulled, while my preference is the latter. Still amazing though!

Because it's a great way to transport taste, whether it's tofu, Seitan or something like Beyond Meat/Impossible Burger. Yes, you can prepare awesome veggie food without it, but it's a great way to get people started without having to miss anything.

Kebab/Döner without veggie-meat just doesn't do anything for me, for example.

I don't get why people are confused about this. You've grown up with certain expectations of how food is being prepared so it should be obvious that you're interested in supplementing the parts that you don't want to eat anymore with something that's compatible with the way you've been preparing food your whole life.

Because American have a very poor culinary tradition (it's improving) so they can't think of plates prepared with different "principles". Most cuisines around the world use a lot less meat if they use it at all, and manage to do that while being delicious.

Italian food is a perfect example, it's so easy to be vegetarian eating Italian (the original version, not the one covered in meat and cheese you find in the US).

Same goes for almost every other culinary tradition in the world, meat used to be expensive.

I’m a meat eater and want to replace meat. It’s not just vegetarians. The factory farming of animals doesn’t sit well ethically with me, but meat has been a staple of my diet my entire life. If there were a viable plant based alternative that’s indistinguishable, factory farming can die out.

It’s not ready yet, and phase 1 was the really weird stuff. I think Beyond Meat is like phase 2 of “pretty close”. In the near future, you won’t be able to tell the difference

KFC isn't rolling out thai/indian curries, garlic chinese broccoli, or cheese gorditas any time soon so in this context it seems odd to somehow demonize fake meat while suggesting foreign cuisines are superior. what's the point?

most of the interest i'm guessing is coming from what was previously thought to be "unthinkable": that is, fast food chains whose core business revolves around animal flesh introducing something else that isn't animal flesh. there are tons of consequences for this outside of American vegetarians wanting to replace meat or whatever.

Personally I’d rather just eat the sides at KFC than have fake over processed chicken. I just don’t get the need for fake meat. Everyone seems to be against over processed foods and fake meats seem more processed than anything else.

If "everyone" were against over-processed food it wouldn't as popular as it evidently is.

Great for you that you don't miss meat in your diet, but is it so hard to imagine others do, especially if they've grown up in places were it is a big part of the typical diet?

Do you realize that you are asking "Why do other people like things that I don't like?"

Answer: Because taste isn't universal.

> Why do American (and presumably westerners) vegetarians want to replace meat

Vegetarians do not want to replace meat. (I mean, they are already vegetarian). Anecdotally, I haven't met a single vegetarian/vegan who is interested in Impossible or Beyond Meat substitutes. Such products are instead very helpful for those who want to reduce read meat in their diet.

Hi, I'm a vegetarian who is very much interested in Impossible and Beyond Meat as meat substitutes.

Now you've met one.

> Vegetarians do not want to replace meat. (I mean, they are already vegetarian).

That's a ridiculous generalisation; it totally depends why they're vegetarian.

Yeah, if it's the taste or the concept of eating meat, they're not going to want a substitute.

But if it's animal cruelty or environmental concerns, those are ameliorated by even lab-grown meats, nevermind the plant-based taste-alikes.

I've personally dined with three vegetarians at the meals where they went to try the Impossible Burger for the first time.

It's dangerous to make blanket statements about what all vegetarians think. For example, on the question of why someone has chosen to be a vegetarian, I've heard a long list of different reasons, including: animal welfare, environment, their own health/longevity/energy, not liking the taste of meat, not enjoying the idea of eating an animal's flesh (even if it were ethical), their religion encourages it, and/or it's their default because they were brought up that way and have never tasted meat.

Because "red curry with tofu" is just called "red curry with tofu", not "vegan red curry with tofu". Same with chana masala, hummus and veggie sandwich, pasta marinara, etc. But a hamburger, "chicken nuggets", etc very much needs the "vegan" prefix to make it clear what it is, so you end up associating the word with the meat substitutes. But that doesn't mean American vegetarians only eat things that have the word vegan/vegetarian in the label.

Similarly, "gluten-free" is associated with breads, pastas, etc. Not rice or other non-imitation products.

Indian food is amazing, but I also don’t want to give up the experience that is a good burger. In an ideal world, taking up a vegetarian diet wouldn’t restrict me to traditionally vegetarian foods, but would also have close analogues to the meat dishes I enjoyed before. That’s where the substitutes come in.

I think it’s great that these substitutes are being seriously developed because even though they may not be good replications today, they eventually will be, and this will allow meat to stars to have their cake and eat it too when going vegetarian.

I used to eat veggie burgers and fake chicken tenders, but you are right going with a true vegetarian recipe is always better than just taking a meat dish and using fake meat!

Because people want to keep eating things like burgers, hotdogs, tacos, etc. And not everyone knows how to replace the "meat" part. Basically not everyone knows or has the patience to build things from scratch. I'm fortunate that my family has time to cook things from scratch but I do see the market for all those replacements, some of them are good some others are yes weird.

Primarily because sometimes people want a burger and not have to have a cow die to get it.

Another reason is that red meat is known to be carcinogenic and hard on lipids and while their isn't sufficient data on plant based meats the going assumption that it is at least modestly better is probably a reasonable one.

But yes, non-processed plant based food is terrific and probably the best for you.

Chinese vegetarian food in China is also big on meat replacement, usually via some kind of tofu magic. I’m also not a fan.

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