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Comment by jplayer01 | Hacker News Reader

Even teams with hundreds of developers aren't able to put out enough content to keep players satisfied without resorting to artificial limits. Maybe it's a problem with how these games and the tools are designed, but I've always believed something like EVE or Second Life is the only real viable paradigm for MMOs. Give players the tools to build their own experience.

I recently had some time off and ended up burning through nearly all of Destiny 2's content inside of 2-3 weeks. Hell, I can jump into WoW and be raid ready inside of a week or two, and just go straight into the latest raid. I think there's something fundamentally very wrong with how modern MMOS are designed, but it doesn't seem like anybody is interested in properly exploring the solution space.

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Older MMOs still have a ton of stuff to do, outside of grinding - EverQuest 2 and Lord of the Rings online are two I can always find something to do in..

I think a large part of the problem can be solved by adding more 'sub-systems' - housing, fishing, cosmetics, titles/deeds, playable instruments, farming, whatever...

Seems like newer games just want to focus on combat and gear progression, which has people burning thru content.

The thing is: people want to play but most will not like all your sub-systems. Many will just play one or two of the different game modes, and now you have to create new contents for players IN ALL THE DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE GAME!

If people want more PVE combat, I think the solution will probably comes from automatic creation of new content. With the advance of AI, we'll come there eventually, but don't hold your breath.

that's why you need lots of sub-systems...so everyone can find a few they enjoy. The effort to implement a sub-system is a one-time cost, as opposed to the on-going cost of content creation. Also, a lot of players in full MMORPGs (as opposed to looter/shooters with gear grind..) dislike random dungeons, raids, etc. Seems like developers can't win!

It's true, and it's why so many MMO's find themselves leaning into adding that grind to leveling, or a repetition in the end-game loop. The days of every developer taking a crack at creating a 'WOW killer' (and all of them failing) have thankfully past, I'm sure there are a bunch of traditional MMO's that are still trucking along nicely (Final Fantasy 15, Black Desert Online, the new Maple Story) but that sort of Quest Content driven game isn't so predominant nowadays (outside of nostalgia trips like WOW Classic and Runescape Classic). I can't say I miss them too much?

The dynamic gets really interesting - I play Final Fantasy 14, and looking at content you can tell the moment they switched the core of their monetization strategy from subscription fees to optional cosmetics. The game got tighter and way less grindy and repetitive; the later expansions are significantly better games for it (so much so that the devs are actually talking about going back and cutting out a bunch of the earlier grind for newer players, since it's notorious for putting people off).

Just a heads up, you mean to say Old School Runescape; Runescape Classic refers to the first version of Runescape that was superceded by Runescape 2 (in 2004) and is now defunct.

I find Lord of the Rings Online to have some of the best story driven questing. The story line is interesting, the quests are fairly varied and the 'ohh...' factor when you walk into well known places like Moria is awesome!

I played LOTR Online when it first came out! I think the only MMO I've paid for. Sadly, I don't think I was as much as fan of it as you were, I bounced off it by lv25. Probably much has been added in the last 10+ years though!

I have just started playing LOTR Online a few days ago after getting completely burnt out in WoW, and I'm finding it to be much more fun than I was expecting. The game engine is a bit less slick than WoWs, as it clearly has not been as updated as often as WoWs has been, but the environments and heavy story based questing more than make up for it.

I thought the Mines of Moria was the most atmospheric zone I've seen in an MMO. Really captured the creepy, ancient ruins feeling...Oh! Give monster play a try! Its a rather unique take on PVP where you can actually play as the heroes or the monsters!

Warframe is a quest driven mmo. It's framed to feel like an expansive singeplayer game, but it's an instanced mmo.

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