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Comment by lotsofpulp | Hacker News Reader

Either? Dozen children is hyperbole, but 3 to 5 children, as well as an extended family for support. But it takes a lot of sacrifice to achieve, which no younger person I know of is interested in.

One can also plan to off themselves once they're unable to support themselves. I say plan, because I'm sure saying it is easy, but when it comes time to do it, it'll be much more difficult.

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3 - 5 kids is not a solution to the problem, it's a pyramid scheme of ever expanding population that stops as soon as population growth stops, an I don't know if you noticed, but we've hit 8 billion, so it's no longer an option.

Also, what is this sacrifice you are talking about? Just another one "kids these days!"

> But it takes a lot of sacrifice to achieve, which no younger person I know of is interested in

I almost involuntarily typed "OK Boomer" in response to that.

*I'm Gen X, not a Millenial, but still

I’m also in the younger generation, but we are choosing to live in more expensive cities and being further educated and prioritizing high incomes as opposed to starting to have kids at a younger age. There is no value judgment here about the choices, but I would consider it a sacrifice to give up partying in one’s 20s to raise a family capable and willing to support you. Of course, it may also not be a good choice since earning power of those who have children in younger 20s might be greatly reduced.

One of the big reasons cities are more expensive is that a lot of Americans use their house as a savings plan, causing society to prioritize things that keep property values stable or increasing.

We can't simultaneously have ever-rising property values and affordable housing. Without affordable housing, many people are choosing to defer having kids (including, as you say, by pursuing more education to get higher-paying jobs), which reduces the worker/retiree ratio. That in turn makes it more expensive to be old, requiring more yet more savings.

To me a lot of this problem like a pathological response to the US's lack of good long-term pension coverage. Our every-man-for-himself, devil-take-the-hindmost approach causes a lot of scarcity thinking, which makes it hard to adopt sensible systemic solutions.

Maybe one reason. But I think the biggest reason is that technology and globalization have caused more and more jobs to move to big cities, and in particular to cities on the east and west coast (in the US), which results in housing scarcity due to demand exceeding supply. This is the case in the city where I live. Due to a booming tech industry, the influx of people moving to the city exceeds the amount of housing that can be built (along with other infrastructure, like roads).

And it isn't a problem in all cities either. From what I hear costs are going down in many industrial cities as residents leave to seek more abundent jobs elsewhere.

Sure, but the question is: why hasn't housing supply kept up? I'd say it's because there are strong political incentives to avoid doing anything that might cause prices to go down. So we end up with very restrictive zoning and a ton of inertia. This is very obvious in all the Silicon Valley suburbs, where everybody loves job growth but housing growth barely happens.

As to the latter point, I'd be interested to see your data. The Case-Shiller metro indexes are all up over the last 5 years. [1] The metro area with the least inflation is New York, which doesn't match.

[1] https://us.spindices.com/additional-reports/all-returns/inde...

Cities in the US are more expensive due to housing policy, as you mention, but also because cities as the engine of American business and growth are subsidizing the rest of the nation. A significant chunk of every city dweller's money ends up in taxes that are transferred to far less efficient and less wealthy non city areas.

Take away the wealth transfer from cities to non urban areas and the only people living in rural areas will be the wealthiest and end of the world preppers.

People are prioritizing expensive cities because that's how you get higher income. You get higher income by being educated. And you need higher income to raise kids because raising kids is incredibly expensive especially if you don't have a higher income job's provided healthcare.

This has absolutely nothing to do with partying. And if you're choosing to have kids for the purpose of having a support network when you're older, that's kind of a fucked up rationalization for it. At that point, society has failed you somewhere along the way. Even ancient societies had other methods of supporting the elderly in the community or through some form of welfare.

Who would take care of someone else like they would their own parents? And you can do things for multiple purposes. Children and family provide a valuable support network to get you through life, but it can also be because you want to raise kids to be good stewards of society and all that Jazz.

Hypothetically.. if one were an unattractive misanthrope with low sperm count.. what procreation strategy would you recommend to maximise my comfort in old age? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking I should adopt at least 7 Vietnamese orphans.. I won't be able to provide them more than a community college education, and I will undoubtedly imbue them with emotional problems as well.. so 7 sounds like a safe number to perhaps end up with 1 or 2 more resilient ones that will be able to manage my care...

And then presumably your children need to have 3-5 children each, and their children have 3-5 children each, ad infinitum?

So, given these 3 options:

1. Save money.

2. Have 3-5 kids.

3. Kill yourself.

What I’m hearing is that you prefer 2 & 3?

It’s impossible for 99% of people to save enough money to buy the kind of care your children would provide you. Not even considering how well someone would tend to wiping your butt, but the emotional benefits of being surrounded by family are probably not able to be replicated.

It's also a great incentive to not alienate your children.

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