Hacker News Reader

Comment by FabHK | Hacker News Reader

No, it's not a straw man. Austerity has very much been promoted as a cure; it was not an inevitable consequence of the economic situation.

The debate is maybe best exemplified by the debate between Krugman ("against austerity") and Reinhart/Rogoff ("pro austerity").

> Nobel laureate Paul Krugman refused to back down in a dispute with Harvard University economists Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff over a 2010 paper they wrote that’s been used to justify austerity in the U.S. and Europe.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-28/krugman-f...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/apr...

View on HN

Krugman doesn't believe that there's any problem with unlimited debt, so of course, he's not going to want austerity. Why would you make sacrifices when you get everything you want, today, for free?

There are consequences for overspending and overborrowing. We don't have a way to paper over that. You can pay today or you can tomorrow with interest.

> You can pay today or you can tomorrow with interest.

You can pay today or you can have the next generation pay for it tomorrow with interest.

This is what we are seeing right now. Previous generations lived on public debt and funded their infrastructure, their services, and their retirements and pensions with debt which has to be paid out of current tax payers revenues. This has left us in a situation where so much tax money is being used to pay back debt in the form of bonds, pensions, etc. This has seen a reduction in school quality, in infrastructure maintenance, public services, etc because the money isn't there to pay for these things.

And then I see young people today cheering for Warren's plan to increase benefits for the elderly, unaware that this comes out of their pocket. That this will take away their services and their infrastructure and their future.

You're caricaturing Krugman's view. First, he doesn't advocate for "unlimited debt" or think that there is no problem with it. He says that with the current interest rates, for many countries it would be better to take on additional debt than to engage in austerity, both in the short and in the long term. Second, he argues that the Kenneth/Rogoff paper showing some sudden onset of bad consequences at some magic level of debt/GDP is mistaken and misguided.

> You can pay today or you can tomorrow with interest.

Yes, that's how it works with individuals or households. For countries, it's a bit more complicated than that.

Finally, note that Trump's uncalled for tax cut has significantly increased US debt for basically no benefit (except enriching corporations and the very rich), while those arguing against austerity would want to incur some debt for productive purposes, enhancing growth down the line.

To add to your links: https://contrakrugman.com/

Thanks. It's good to challenge your views, so I'll listen in a bit. However, I must say that as an ex-libertarian (that left the creed because of its serious flaws) I am apprehensive about the neutrality of a show hosted by Tim Wood, a "Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist and paleolibertarian" (Wikipedia) that's received fellowships from the Institute for Humane Studies (funded by the Scaifes, Kochs, etc.).

EDIT to add:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Woods

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Humane_Studies

> I am apprehensive about the neutrality of a show...

I'd also assume any show that bills itself as "Paul Krugman's column refuted, week after week!" is more of an ideological security blanket than real intellectual engagement or critique.

I'd personally categorize Paul Krugman as an idealogue. You might think the same of Bob Murphy and Tom Woods, but the aim was to offer a counterpoint to Krugman's ideas.

I believe you'd find the intellectual engagement and critiques within the podcast, not the subtitle.

> I believe you'd find the intellectual engagement and critiques within the podcast, not the subtitle.

No, I doubt it. If they think they can refute [1] like clockwork future columns they've never seen, it's almost certain they're just rehashing dogmas for the faithful. I have better things to spend my time on than that.

[1] a very strong word, by the way

Reply on news.ycombinator.com