Comment by BeetleB | Hacker News Reader

Comment by BeetleB | Hacker News Reader

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> recall that Qatar was kicked out of GCC recently for aligning with rival ideologies like Muslim Brotherhood

This is a very narrow view of what happened. It has more to do with the worry of Qatar's growing influence and independence in the region, as well as their close ties with Iran and Turkey. And the success of Al-Jazeera. I mean, just take a look at the demands made of Qatar:

- Closing Al-Jazeera and its affiliate stations.

- Closing other news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye.

- Closing the Turkish military base in Qatar, and terminate the Turkish military presence and any joint military cooperation with Turkey inside Qatar.

- Reducing diplomatic relations with Iran. Only trade and commerce with Iran that complies with US and international sanctions will be permitted.[228]

- Expelling any members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and cutting off military and intelligence cooperation with Iran.[229]

- "Qatar must announce it is severing ties with terrorist, ideological and sectarian organizations including the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Jabhat Fateh al Sham, formerly al Qaeda's branch in Syria" according to one Arab official.

- Surrendering all designated terrorists in Qatar, and stopping all means of funding for individuals, groups or organisations that have been designated as terrorists.

- Ending interference in the four countries' domestic and foreign affairs and having contact with their political oppositions.

- Stopping granting citizenship to wanted nationals from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Bahrain.

- Revoking Qatari citizenship for existing nationals where such citizenship violates those countries' laws.[228]

- The payment of reparations for years of alleged wrongs.

- Monitoring for 10 years.[226]

- Aligning itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters, in line with an agreement reached with Saudi Arabia in 2014.[228]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_diplomatic_crisis#Demand...

Spent a good amount of time over there. GCC states shitting on each other is real "pot, meet kettle" hypocrisy and nonsense. And yes, we have two massive bases in Qatar. We can play all of the GCC against each other, but I can say as bigoted as it sounds: all the GCC states are repulsive and US support of _any_ of them is yet another sign of the US government upholding the stability of its values at home by subverting access to those same values for others abroad.

It is like we are all in an ironic race to the bottom for who can be most ironic with "do what I say, not what I do."

It is weird US is bothered by Qatar having good relations with Turkey, which harbour US bases, 50+ US nukes, and NATO's second largest army.

It is almost like US doesn't want its allies to work well with each other. /s

>> It is almost like US doesn't want its allies to work well with each other.

Pretty much on point. See also support for Brexit and anything that divides Europe. It's really just about protecting US's interests. Double standards is part of that. International law is for weaker nations(i.e divided).

I don’t believe brexit is in US interests. And I think any US politician saying they support brexit is pandering to their base. The UK is a major diplomatic and political avenue into the EU. What other EU country has a relationship with the US like the UK?

Brit here: I think it is in the US interests, depending (and trump thinks in very simple ways). If the UK splits hard from the EU, it can (supposedly) be persuaded to accept US standards of food etc. Europe is also weakened by losing a major member so it can be pulled apart over time and 'embraced'.

I can see how the US, this pres especially, might see brexit as an opportunity and benefit.

(edit: clarification)

The Article 1 branch of the U.S. government sees American interests somewhat differently from "divides Europe":

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2019/1201/1096402-gfa-congress-br...

A civil war in the UK would not benefit the US, neither a hard border with the EU/Ireland (i.e for trade).

>> Asked to name his biggest competitor and foe globally, the US president said there were "a lot of foes" and named Russia and China among them, but the first on his list was the EU.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44837311

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/very-dangerous-putin-trump-w...

US support for Brexit seems to generally follow party lines in the US. Almost all Americans I know (I am American) thinks it's a terrible idea promoted by conmen. The few who do support Brexit have some other beliefs I find very questionable.

I have the opposite experience. The Americans that are against brexit seem to be ignorant of the reasons why Brits want it. They just see it as a partisan issue and think of themselves as being on the "smart"side. Having talked to such folks many times, I have the impression they have no clue beyond the surface of the issue.

US media is distinctly anti-brexit, and paints leavers as uneducated xenophobic nationalists. Personally, most americans I know are mildly pro-brexit. Seems to echo our national narrative of the nations birth, and sovergnity. Most americans seem not to have a strong opinion on brexit, although most are familiar with the term.

That's... not how US stance as a country is perceived from outside. We don't see average Joe's opinion, but mainly statements and actions of politicians. And they do generally support Brexit

These were Saudi demands, not US.

This is what the GCC is bothered buy. The US was discombobulated by the whole thing, and tried fruitlesslyto get the two sides to kiss and make up.

(After Obama's neutrality/mediation, Trump has sided with the GCC, but against the opinion of the professionals; the shift seems less about US interests and more about his personal interests and prejudices.)

You are spot on with the true reasons about the blockade of Qatar. I also heard that the blockading countries offered to end the blockade if Qatar transferred the 2022 World Cup hosting rights to them, though I'm not sure if that's even possible.

Regarding the demands on Qatar with respect to terrorist organizations:

1) The list includes organizations that are only designated as terrorist organizations by a minority of countries.

2) Qatar has regularly organized meetings between US government officials and terrorist organizations like the Taliban.

It's worth noting that these are Saudi (ok, Gulf Council. But Saudi..) demands, not US demands.

US and Saudi interests are not completely aligned here, although Turkish behaviour since has pushed them back closer togther (in particular buying Russian missile defence systems).

You are absolutely right. I completely agree. I didn’t expand as I was on my phone. But yes I totally agree with you.

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