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Comment by mschuster91 | Hacker News Reader

Good riddance. I'm very happy that the US VC model of blatantly ignoring rules, growing (and thus creating popular demand / support) and then lobbying for law amendments in their favor has failed here.

A key part of why Uber failed in Germany is also that our taxi market is massively and properly regulated which means the selling points of Uber being a better taxi service simply were irrelevant here - our taxis come when you order them, the drivers are competent and will take you on the most efficient way possible to your destination and the pricing is consistent no matter if it's day or night, if it's high demand time thanks to e.g. a trade fair or not, or if you're drunk or sober. The only thing that sucks is that many do not take cards, but that's a cultural thing - Germans love their cash.

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"A key part of why Uber failed in Germany is also that our taxi market is massively and properly regulated"

expensive, poor service where incumbents reign supreme. immigrants and the night economy workers are constantly being discriminated against.

the "german model" is an antiquated POS that already died out.

The German system might have problems but also comes with upsides, e.g. mandatory 24 hour ride coverage in the more rural areas as a condition of cab licenses, training, ... I mean, is there anything stopping Uber from going for cab licenses and giving their employees the protection our laws dictate?

That might not fit their business model and the regular cab model might be bad but I'm not convinced that the Uber/pseudo ride share alternative is all roses either. It certainly can't be the solution to just replace badly behaving incumbents with some cheap startup that doesn't even employ their drivers.

> giving their employees the protection our laws dictate?

> some cheap startup that doesn't even employ their drivers.

the world has changed decades ago. i think it's time for your laws to change as well.

overall your comment reminds me of this:

“When behavior runs into poor design, behavior always, and I mean always, wins.” —@asymco

> the world has changed decades ago. i think it's time for your laws to change as well.

The European approaches to worker protection aren't a thing the world has just moved on from because they want a more convenient and slightly cheaper cab service. My comment was meant to point out that these regulations don't just mean to stifle some radical new business model. I for one can live without yet another industry based on worker exploitation, we've got enough of those already. Or maybe, to encourage discussion rather than dismissing that view: what upside would the German society have from relaxing that legislation? That sector could use some deregulation, sure, but I don't see the point of replacing it with a player that wants none.

> i think it's time for your laws to change as well.

Maybe we could leave that to German society and politics instead of letting some money-drunken American jackass[0] run the show?

Which is exactly what the court is doing, so: mission accomplished.

[0] I mean Kalanick is gone, but that lack of ethics still seems to be very deeply embedded within that organization.

> i think it's time for your laws to change as well.

So if I don't agree with the laws in your country then you should change them too?

overall your comment reminds me of this:

“The problem with the race to the bottom is that you might win.” — Seth Godin

You want riots like in France? Because that tends to happen when you screw over workers rights for more profits for the elites.

It's gonna be real fun for Uber and the other "gig economy" exploiters if Warren or Sanders win.

In Germany, averybody can get a taxi permit - there are no artificial limits - and there are plenty of immigrants running their own taxi business. Some discrimination of immigrants exists, but it has little to do with taxis in particular. And taxi service is fine - I use it once or twice a month on average.

Exactly. I've personally never had a positive experience with the German Taxi services. The drivers are extremely rude, they get mad if you need change or use credit cards, and they're usually 20-30% more expensive. No thanks.

I'll be sticking with the private alternatives like Über, Sixt Ride, etc.

Where are immigrants and the night economy workers being discriminated in German taxis?

> The only thing that sucks is that many do not take cards, but that's a cultural thing - Germans love their cash.

With an experience of two surveillance states on German soil in the 20th century (of which one ended just about 30 years ago), it is a very good idea to use a very privacy-conscious method of payment whenever possible. Currenly cash is arguably the best option for this.

> Germans love their cash.

I think it has to do with generations. I see more and more stores (even bakeries, O.M.G.!) accepting cards without lower limits - and I live in a town with ~80.000 people.

Give it some more years, and it will work out.

AFAIK card limits have been illegal for some years.

Where? Germany? In France I don't know what is the regulation but still many places will ask for minimum charges, sometimes around 10€.

In the UK I sometimes pay for a single Banana by card, 50p (0.6€).

When I do, I wonder if the highest carbon footprint was from the payment processing or the banana processing!

Germany but if there's an actual law it's probably EU-wide. I haven't found one but I have found rumors that PSD2 banned minimum charges. I guess everyone is complying to a phantom law.

AFAIK they've been allowed and disallowed and re-allowed under contracts with the payment networks over the years; currently I think at least in the US they're allowed, but regardless, I'm not aware of them having been illegal.

The only time I've used MyTaxi the driver drove us in a blatantly longer route to get more money out of us. I trust Uber much more.

It's a common pattern, a lot of things are backward and lagging behind the times in Germany, and so many Germans are convinced it's better that way, but they still change, just 10 or more years later.

I'll update my opinion when international debit and credit cards are universally accepted rather than needing bank cards.

> I'll update my opinion when international debit and credit cards are universally accepted rather than needing bank cards.

That's coming now that credit cards aren't fleecing merchants anymore: they just weren't competitive against bank cards (or, gasp!, cash) until ~10 years ago with their ~3% fees.

That dropped to ~1.5% 5 years ago due to EU regulations and is now limited to 0.3%, which is, surprise surprise, the fee we had for bank cards.

So it's not due to "backwards Germans", or due to the "free market", it's due to regulations that credit cards are now making inroads, because their operators were forced to make a competitive offer.

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