Hacker News Reader

I use Alexa for one light that never got connected to a light switch. I used wireless X-10 for it previously :-)

I agree about reliability. It's one reason I won't get a Nest thermostat. I live in snow country and I'm not going to do anything that potentially introduces a new failure mode into my heating system.

(I actually have a couple of the Nest smoke detectors. The internet connection isn't required for them to function as dumb detectors and they work well in my experience.)

I live in snow country as well so when I updated my boiler for home automation I connected the existing controller that has worked for 20 years to the NC side of each relay. This way if the HA controller fails it falls back to the old less sophisticated but near bullet proof analog control system. I dialed those thermostats down 10 degrees below the HA setpoints. If the HA system fails the relays are inert and the old system keeps the house from freezing.

I suppose if it fails with the relays energized it's going to get pretty hot inside, but in the meantime if I have issues with the HA system I can just turn it off and use the old thermostats. This was great while I was debugging my design.

An internet connection isn’t required for the Nest thermostat to operate the furnace either.

I can appreciate not wanting to allow Google the opportunity to brick your thermostat (and hence your furnance) through some kind of software issue but if you’re willing to extend that faith to their smoke detectors, why not your furnace?

I guess my feeling with the smoke/CO detectors is that I also have other "dumb" models throughout the house. Furthermore, a thermostat needs to work basically all the time at certain times of the year, whereas the detector only needs to work when there's something to detect. I guess Google could silently brick them and I'd never know about it but that seems to be getting into paranoia territory. (And it's not like other detectors can't silently fail too.)

It's probably paranoia about the thermostat too TBH. But other than looking cooler than my old programmable Honeywell, a Nest thermostat also wouldn't really do anything for me anyway.

Yeah, the Nest was ahead of its time in 2010; but by 2012 the big players like Honeywell and Carrier had caught up. At this point they beat Nest on both price and features. A good friend of mine owns an HVAC company and would recommend a dozen thermostats over a Nest on functionality alone.

> I live in snow country and I'm not going to do anything that potentially introduces a new failure mode into my heating system.

On the flip side, my Ecobee notified me that my furnace was broken while I was at work.

I don't really see name-brand smart thermostats in the same category as most home automation devices. There's also a lot of nice features that can improve efficiency. For example, we drastically cut our cooling bill by utilizing the scheduled fan mode to pull cool, main floor air into the air handler and redistributing it (partially to the second floor).

> I would cumulatively save more time by just walking downstairs to turn the lights off.

Unless one is bedridden, it's better to get up and turn the lights on/off manually, including the stairs.

> but I also have to make sure that the 3 services required to make that work remain talking to each other.

this problem doesn't always exist in all setups. I have lights that connect directly to Google Home/Nest that have never lost a connection. As long as Google assistant is up, it works without issue.

I've had other setups that use a hub and if the connection is not working for some reason, you're provided with that feedback at the time you issue your command.

And as we all know, Google never kill a product.

thats unrelated, Google is just one company and the ecosystem is evolving to a more customer friendly experience.

I can look at the house security cameras set up years ago and that required a dedicated sever, video recording software and all sorts of networking knowledge.

Now people are just able to buy Ring devices.

> but a $0.50 analog light switch will last a century

Most will. Some will break within 3 months. Our old home tech (there is nothing analog in a light switch) isn't as flawless as most people claim. Power outlets do short circuit, wires to break, circuit breakers to burn closed.

They are still way more reliable than most electronic trash people push as smart home devices, but at this point, it's a marketing decision not an inherent property of electronics.

Everything we make and buy will someday return to dust.

It is an economic decision to make choices about the level of complexity you are willing to tolerate from device to device. The lights go out, I can burn some candles, but I would still rather have my lights working despite their relative complexity over the candles, but I want them to always work with a manual toggle. The toggle shouldn’t have 30 pages of legalese and a promise to not violate my privacy too much for too much personal gain, with the words “too” and “much” defined rather loosely in all the legal jargon.

> but at this point, it's a marketing decision not an inherent property of electronics.

It's an inherent property of many things that increased complexity tends to mean increased failure rate (or earlier failure).