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Comment by dangero | Hacker News Reader

There is no gambling in the app you're assuming a lot without trying the app.

You earn the exact same amount of points on every level -- those points are convertible to Bitcoin -- did you even read the description?

Edit 1: Regarding the term that you claim it's violating, we do not reward users for taking any specific actions. They receive loyalty points for playing. That's not a specific action.

Edit 2: Did you read the post? We had 20,000 reviews and over a million users you think that was fake generated traffic?

Edit 3: Google is hiring you might want to apply in the Google Play review department because you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions you'd fit in well there.

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So, let me get this straight: This is a game that pays you tiny amounts of bitcoin to play, with a semi-complicated payout scheme?

That sounds to me like you're running a bitcoin miner on people's devices and taking a cut yourself. I'd very much consider that "deceptive" unless made painfully obvious in the description.

Gambling is a grey area due to the game not requiring you to win, but it really should be considered gambling due to it being a game that pays you money, teaching an unhealthy association for young players.

Plus, the legal definition of gambling do not matter here, only Google's definition in the ToS, which includes games that provide prizes of real-world value. That would include Bitcoin.

Google allows games that reward in real world value. They don't allow gambling. We were not suspended for violating the gambling terms because our app includes no gambling at all and no games of skill. We give away money to all users and nobody earns more or less.

Loyalty points convert to Bitcoin it's not complicated if it was would our rating be 4.5 we have not bought any users ever.

Search rewards apps on Google there are hundreds of them. Those do not violate Google terms.

You're avoiding the primary point, and the only point that Google complained about ("deception"). Suspicious.

If you really wish to keep nitpicking on gambling, I'll introduce you to a snippet of the Google TOS which invalidates any argument you may have as to whether or not your app can be considered gambling:

> "... including, but not limited to... "

The list of scenarios is non-exclusive, and Google is free to add additional scenarios and interpretations to the list as they please.

> Loyalty points convert to Bitcoin it's not complicated if it was would our rating be 4.5 we have not bought any users ever.

Your rating does not interest me, although I am slightly amused that you're saying you bought your users.

I, as an end-user reading your terms, find your payout scheme rather complicated: You only pay out above a certain threshold, only once a week, and only if you remember to register (despite probably mining regardless). A lot of areas that lead to no or missed payouts.

> Search rewards apps on Google there are hundreds of them. Those do not violate Google terms.

This is entirely irrelevant. Google's enforcement of a policy does not affect its validity.

We did not buy any users that is a misinterpretation of my point that we have reviews on day 1 because we paid for advertising.

Our app doesn't mine on their phone -- phone mining is not profitable at all.

Then where does the money come from?

This is even more suspicious if it is not sharing revenue generated by the user, as it then sounds like an unsustainable marketing stunt.

Ads? Fractions of a cent is not much, seems like the same order as the amount that could be earned through ad impressions.

Does every user receive 100% of the bitcoins mined using their device’s resources?

If the answer is “no”, then you’re either running a Bitcoin lottery (which is gambling), a Bitcoin skimmer (which is stealing), and/or a Bitcoin pyramid scheme (which is fraudulent).

From your reply, the answer is lottery/gambling, and from other replies, you did not clearly mark your app as a gambling app. That you’re gambling “points bought with watts” in no way contradicts that.

If I misunderstand which of the three paths your app is taking, or if somehow you’re constructing a fourth path, please correct me in plain and specific language on how you acquire (through mining or currency conversion) the Bitcoin it distributes to end users, and how you are not a lottery system such that each user receives the full value of currency their device is responsible for creating.

EDIT: As a footnote, your article is full of outrage but contains no technical details about your app, which is a common red flag for “we got caught doing something we’re unwilling to describe plainly”.

We don't mine Bitcoin on users resources this is a witch hunt. I have nowhere mentioned mining and our app does not mine. Mining only works with huge ASIC farms mostly in China with cheap power. We are not involved in this at all.

Our app has ads, like many apps do. That's the primary way we make money. We give users loyalty points for playing the game, they can cash those out for a very small amount of Bitcoin that is it.

Is your "primary" way the only way you make money through the app, or is there a secondary mechanism for making money through it?

Right now the other source is Coinbase referrals -- they have a referral program for new users that we onboard. You can google it to see how it works.

Is the game skill-based (poker) or luck-based (slot machine RNG)?

The game is a mix of skill and luck. The reward is not affected by your game performance —- win or lose you receive the same loyalty points. Thats what makes it neither a game of skill or gambling.

>You earn the exact same amount of points on every level -- those points are convertible to Bitcoin

>Edit 1: Regarding the term that you claim it's violating, we do not reward users for taking any specific actions. They receive loyalty points for playing. That's not a specific action.

Seems like a contradiction to me. From Google, "For all other locations, we don't allow content or services that facilitate online gambling, including, but not limited to, online casinos, sports betting and lotteries, and games of skill that offer prizes of cash or other real world value."

Most would agree redeeming bitcoin provides access to real world value.

>Edit 3: Google is hiring you might want to apply in the Google Play review department because you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions you'd fit in well there.

Aw come on, you're gonna make dang mad with these personal attacks. You should be paying me for taking the time out of my day to consult and provide this educational seminar. I take BTC: 1JRtfLaknTjzsLowQZYMLsanDx76rFhtER

It's not a "game of skill" or gambling look into Skillz or World Winner you're not familiar with the terminology being used here those are very specific things.

The term from Apple you're mentioning came about because during the ICO era people were rewarding users for taking actions like downloading an app, retweeting something, etc. Our apps do not do that.

It's not a complicated scheme. You earn loyalty points for playing the game, you cash those out to Bitcoin.

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