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Comment by kody | Hacker News Reader

I worked 4x10s when I worked for the Army and it was awesome. 3 day weekends take off so much pressure, and come Sunday night I was starting to feel the itch to get back into work rather than the dreadful feeling that I 'wasted' my weekend. The only work experience that was better than this was 100% flexibility to work remotely and/or flex hours.

So there's my anecdata for you :)

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10 hours really seems extreme. I am certain that the vast majority of office workers could produce the same level of output at a 4x9 schedule as they do in a 5x8 or would in a 4x10.

And most would be profoundly happier people.

The vast majority of people I know who can do four 10s love it, and find the 10 hour days aren't really much different then the 8s. I'd love it if I could do four 10s, but in a company that does 24/7 healthcare, that's not an option for support staff like IT, not even at my level.

The issue with 4x10s is those days are exhausting - they leave me with no energy to do anything else that day. At least with 5x8, most days I can get out for a bike ride after work, or take my dog for a long walk. 10 hours? It doesn't happen, I go home and flop on the sofa.

Right, but that's you, lots of other folks like them, so we should have the choice.

There's nothing magical about other folks. They either have lots of slack time during the 10 hour days or their jobs aren't really that challenging.

Why would there be no folks that simply have higher mental endurance?

There are large differences between people regarding their strength, physical endurance and intelligence. Why not mental endurance?

Yeah, in my experience the difference between 8 and 10 hour workdays were negligible (except certain times of year where I'd get to my desk before sunrise and leave well after sunset). Anything I'd do with my "extra" 2 hours per day I'd happily batch into my free Friday.

I completely see where you're coming from, but having kids changes the calculus completely.

Not necessarily. Most folks have kids, most folks I know that prefer four 10s have kids, and like having that fifth day off.

I barely see/interact with my kids on an 8 hour day. On a 10 hour day, I'd probably miss them completely.

I would like one day a week when I'm not working OR looking after the kids, however. That would be amazing. It would be great to give it a try and see how it worked out. Unfortunately my employer is a hardass and doesn't even allow work from home, let alone fewer days a week.

Young kids need 10-12 hours of sleep. 10 hours working, plus 1 hour lunch, and a 30 minute each way commute means your kids likely should literally be sleeping the whole time you're at home during a work day.

I don't know any parents that do that - literally never interact with their kids 4 days out of the week. What actually happens is parents sacrifice their kids' sleep schedule.

Great point. I hadn’t considered that at all.

I do find there's a lot of benefit to flexibility though. If I'm in the zone at the end of day, and don't have anything else to do that night, I'll often work an extra ~2 hours (or until I feel like I've lost it.) But on the flip side, I will also leave early on a night where I have a lot to do outside work.

Oh for sure. I'd bet that people working 4x9s or even 4x8s are equally/more productive as 4x10s and 5x8s and are happier. But if I'm choosing between 4x10 and 5x8 I'd take 4x10 any day.

really? HN crowd is talking about 10 hr days as “exhausting” ? i can’t remember the last time i worked less than 5x10.

To me, the idea of consistently working more than 50 hours/week is only something I would do if I desperately needed the money and couldn't find a better way to support myself. I hope to never be in that situation.

I understand working like crazy for things like starting a company/grad school/career change, but those things all last a limited time and come to an end.

I wonder if there is a disconnect for people who were brought up in butts-in-seats culture who then count presence at work for 10 hours as work despite possibly turning in 50-60% of that time producing something of value.

Then you have others who are more used to billable time or flex work or similar where they view that 5-6 hours (+ breaks and food) as an '8 hour' day and the two can't understand how the other manages.

Lucky is the person who can throw themselves at problems 10+ hours a day and look forward to going back to it the next day, I guess. I can easily and happily do that in the 6-8 range and feel proud of the previous day's work and be ready to do it again the next day.

By choice?

My best schedule ever was also military, but it was 7-3-7-4: 7 8-hour "afternoon shift" days, then 3 days off, then 7 8-hour "day shift" days followed by 4 days off. The 3-day time off was Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday, and the 4-day was Friday through Monday - and because you were getting off the early shift and going onto the late shift, it seemed like a longer break. Of course, that implies shift work and three crews for 16-hour/7 day coverage. (The "graveyard shift" was a skeleton crew, and your turn would pop up every four months or so. Air force. It was basically for emergency landings for civil and allied aircraft and such, with some swabbing of the decks for busy work.) The work week was long, but there was plenty of time to get stuff done and to wind down. Hell, you could even cram in a weekend getaway without a lot of stress.

4x10s are tough for me, but the 5-4-9 plan (5 9 hour days one week, 3 nine hour days the next week followed by one 8 hour day - basically alternating 3 day weekends) are pretty nice in my book

I worked 9 hour days with every other Friday off and hated it.

Yeah that sounds way too inconsistent on a weekly basis for me

and still on average > 80 hours every 2 weeks.

The way these typically work (and how I am doing it) is that the first Friday is 8 hours, the second Friday is 0 hours, and all other days are 9 hours. I’ve found it to be extremely useful for the reasons mentioned in the article. It gives everyone a weekday off regularly to get weekday-requiring things done like personal appointments. It also makes it easy to take long weekend trips more often. Both of these are aligned in a way that lets the remaining weekdays more productive, since people have their time off aligned.

This type of schedule is called a 9/80 and you work 80 hours every 2 work weeks.

Your Fridays "on" you work 8 hours instead of 9. And you get every other Friday off.

At my company, we have the option between the standard 5x8, the 9/80, and the 4x10 schedules. Surprisingly (at least to me), the 9/80 is by far the most popular (the 4x10 being the 2nd most popular and the standard schedule being the rarest option).

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