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Comment by emsy | Hacker News Reader

This is a neat visualization, I wonder if this is more persuasive than written numbers of users and money. I just think it should use some sort of chunking to avoid breaking the page flow.

On another note, I’m from Germany and here there is absolutely no motion from the government towards legalization. Instead they double down on their failed and regressive prohibition, while still being mostly ignorant towards the dangers of alcohol. This is odd, since not only do more and more countries in the EU decriminalize or legalize weed/drugs but they do so successfully with regards to users, protection of youth and taxes (where it applies). At least the US is moving in the right direction with regards to weed, albeit slowly.

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I think this (and others) pokes holes in the theory that drug laws are predominantly about racism, or predominantly because of U.S. pressure. (It's doubly true for countries that are abject enemies of the U.S., which also generally have strict drug laws.)

Maybe it's pretty simple: the actual majority of the population is in favor of these laws (at least in some countries).

I just don't see a conspiracy here.

I think there's probably a substantial difference for harsh laws on drugs depending on the drug - ex. I would bet most people believe that heroin or meth should be illegal, but far fewer people would think that about marijuana. Pew study (link below) says 2/3rds of Americans think pot should be legal

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/14/americans-s...

What about the __thousands__ of actual drugs that exist, on a wide spectrum of potential harm in-between marijuana and meth/heroin? Trying to legislate this in some kind of fair manner is not a simple issue at all.

If you just decriminalize everything for personal use... you still have a black market, you still ruin people's lives for being involved in the black market, and you still have a drug war.

Maybe they're not ignorant but the alcohol companies have a much stronger lobbying arm and more connections/acceptance with the audience of lawmakers who are the key decision makers on this than cannabis smokers/companies do?

And taxes. Booze is a good revenue stream for the Gov. And in regulated US states. It's why both booze and weed got "essential" business status in those places.

Where the weed industry is getting more lobbying, well, the effects on laws are clear (that is the lobbying is working to change laws to help (some) of the pot business.

One of the reasons alcohol sellers got essential business status is because suddenly stopping drinking alcohol can kill people who are dependent drinkers.

no that is not why

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/yes-liquor...

> In the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, access to alcohol will likely become limited due to social-distancing measures mandated by government officials. Some of these necessary public health strategies—shelter-in-place and closing of non-essential businesses—may in turn cause people with alcohol use disorder (AUD) to find themselves in unsafe scenarios. Forward thinking about how to reduce harms to people with AUD is critical. Untreated AUD is often managed with daily alcohol use, necessary to stave off cravings and withdrawal.

Also if you want good data on costs, effects, and lobbying efforts about the alcohol industry Movendi has good resources (a note- their bias is definitely towards higher taxes and strong laws limiting alcohol use so be aware)

https://movendi.ngo/

Yes exactly (although it's a little bit like stealing from yourself but I don't exactly understand how these budgets work - most countries spend quite a lot on treating alcoholics or the damage from lost productivity, accidents, etc. that erodes the tax base and probably lose money in the end)

When I say ignorant I mean in legislation. Just now Germany's drug safety representative presented a new campaign to keep teenagers from smoking weed (roughly translated "toking is uncool"). I'm not aware that there's a similar campaign to keep kids away from alcohol (or adults for that matter). Although it's by far the most deadly drug.

European countries generally set and/or change their policy based on science, not public "opinion" or pressure.

There is no hard evidence that smoking weed doesn't have a disproportional impact on mental health(particularly youth/young adult).

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