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Comment by pycbr1 | Hacker News Reader

Hope the world never finds out how we get our driver's license.

They know already. A perennial topic of annoyance for US immigrants in Sweden is that their US licence is only valid for a year here, then they have to retake their test (unlike immigrants from the EU who get to convert theirs automatically).

Germany restricts US driving licences depending on issuing US state.

Denmark is apparently far more willing to let it slide, and anyone with a US driving licence can get it converted to a Danish one with just a doctor's approval. Although, in Denmark, their US licence is only valid for a month. But you don't have to retake the test. I am frankly a bit puzzled by this decision.

This seems to be the current list of rules for non EU countries and US states to transfer the driver's license to the German one after six months (linked by ADAC): https://res.cloudinary.com/adacde/image/upload/v1572337531/A...

After having lived 5+ years in Virginia in the US and knowing multiple people that got their driver's license in Virginia, I am really surprised that apparently people with Virginia issued driver's licenses don't need to do a theory nor a practice test in Germany to get the German license. From what I have been told there was no official driving school/education required in Virginia, neither in theory nor in practice. People could just show up for the tests. And at least the practice test was ridiculous: I drove a friend to his test and after 10min of circling around the DMV building the test was done. And consequently people drive really bad (at least in the NoVa region). No one knew anybody who failed the tests. This is all to say the Germany as well is willing to let it slide to a larger extent than I expected.

For comparison, to even register for theory and practice tests in Germany you need to have taken at least 12 90min lessons for the basics and 2 additional 90min lessons for extra topics, all in official driving schools. For the practice test you need at least 12 times 90min driving hours (5 regular roads, 4 autobahn, 3 at night). In average students take 15 practice hours. It is not so uncommon that people fail at theory or practice tests.

> After having lived 5+ years in Virginia in the US and knowing multiple people that got their driver's license in Virginia, I am really surprised that apparently people with Virginia issued driver's licenses don't need to do a theory nor a practice test in Germany to get the German license.

Due to Langley being in VA maybe?

This was my first thought as well. It was probably more expedient from a diplomatic perspective to allow this, despite the obvious lack of rigorous training & testing.

Interesting about the requirements for the theory test. In France I'm not aware of any such requirements to sit the theoretical exam. They actually even eased the process as you don't have to go through a licensed driving school to sit the exam.

For the practical exam though, there are requirements, but not as explicit. I'm only aware of a number of hours, around 20 I think. When I took lessons for the B permit (regular cars) I had a notebook with different sections the instructor had to fill out as I was progressing. For the A permit (motorcycle) there wasn't any such thing.

Yes that has been my experience living in VA for a year, having come in on H1B visa from the UK. The driving test was a joke. Even back during the 90s, in the UK driving tests were much more difficult.

The states list is based on the one recognizing German licenses, not the rigor of the tests.

That list is missing some US states. Any idea why?

It just list the states where one or both exams (theory, practical) are required (column 2 or 3 has "ja") or exempted ("nein"). If a state is missing (like California), a Cali licence holder needs to take both exams to get their licence converted to a German one.

I'm not sure if they'd have to do the whole driving school (there are mandatory 12 hours one has to drive in Germany, with a driving teacher), or if they can just pass the exams and get a German licence.

Interestingly, Switzerland converts all US licences with no exam requirements. I wonder if someone can move there, get their licence converted, and then move to Germany and convert their Swiss licence to a German one...

It's generally due to reciprocity, so states that allow exchanging German licenses will be much more likely to be on the list, and vice versa.

It seems fair, i grew up near a US air force base and the standard of driving was.... questionable.

On the bright side if you do murder someone by driving on the wrong side of the road you can just catch a plane home and hide there, cant you Anne?

For reference:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-52630...

My job is closely related to driver licencing. There are some really unusual agreements between countries. For instance, Spain has special agreements with some South American countries,so people from there can convert their license without taking driving exam. However,even though you end up having an EU licence, if you'd then move to the UK,they wouldn't convert it to British, because initial licence wasn't from the EU. We've had some really interesting cases because of this.

> Germany restricts US driving licences depending on issuing US state.

I always wonder about the situations that inspired regulations like these and exactly how they believe they're solving whatever that problem was.

Was there a rash of accidents involving drivers from Texas? Did someone from Delaware blow the German test so badly that they soured the state's reputation forever? Is this somehow American Top Gear's fault?

The source of this table is probably a legal review of the different exam requirements rather than accident rates and reputation.

I thought about that, but given how easily convertible driving license are between states it still seems like a bad solution to whatever problem they're trying to avoid.

Sadly AFAIK it's just a bilateral contract thing. So if Virginia said "European licences can be converted automatically/you can drive here with them", Germany will also treat Virginian licences the same.

I think the OP was referring to Pakistan. More problematic in this respect are the UN accords that allow people from virtually any country to drive while visiting any other country, so you can have people from poorly licensed countries driving in a place where they're unfamiliar with the road system, language, etc.

The EU/EEA reciprocity is due to EU regulations, not the assumption that every EU country has better driving license standards than every other country.

In Switzerland, for instance, which is not part of the EU/EEA but has a variety of bilateral agreements, EU/EEA licenses and US licenses can and must be exchanged within one year (and these countries among a few others are treated equally), and there are no special provisions for EU/EEA license holders to keep their original license, etc.

I was indeed referring to Pakistan. A decade or so ago, you had to bribe a person or two in order to get your license at the dmv, and they made the actual driving test next to impossible to pass, something like "Make a reverse L shape without hitting any cones" the L being a very tight fit. If you didn't have a DL, you'd pay a bribe every time you were pulled over, although the bribes would be to the tune of $1, although the times have changed since.

>"Make a reverse L shape without hitting any cones" the L being a very tight fit.

When I did my driving licence test in the UK that was one of the exercises. In my opinion, anyone without the hand-eye coordination and spatial awareness to reverse around a corner should stay away from operating ~1 ton heavy machinery.

>"Make a reverse L shape without hitting any cones"

You mean standard test in all of EU?

Same situation in other places, even in Europe. In Romania not only that in small cities this is the only way to get a permit, even if you drive well, but we have people that cannot read but having a driver license.

Corruption is a "well known secret" in every country in the world.

> Corruption is a "well known secret" in every country in the world.

That's certainly not true in my experience. In many countries I've visited I felt like a bribe would be a very bad idea and that above all others trusted the police. In an ex-Soviet-bloc state, I've seen a road police force go from USSR-level corruption to trustworthiness in a matter of ~1.5 decades.

But how does this work in practice? I don't think I ever had to bribe someone. Is it like "Here these $5 are for you!" or you just forget $5 on the dashboard? I can't really picture these situations.

It is different case by case or country by country, the point was that corruption exists in any country; not the same corruption, but it is there. In US you call it lobby or pork barrel, in other countries it's the bribe you need to pay everywhere to get anything.

For example, in Bulgaria I rented a police car with 2 real policemen to drive me out of a town where I got lost and I was driving on the wrong way. Not only I did not got a fine, but for something like $5 I got them to drive in front of me, wrong way, then another few kilometers to the city limits. In the same country any speed ticket was voided for $5, maybe $10 if the speed was outrageous.In Romania until recently it used to be mandatory to bribe any surgeon to get a surgery, it still happens on a lower volume even today. If you want a driver permit you talk to an instructor, they will arrange it for you - just give the money to the instructor and get the exams passed. Border crossing - same, bus drivers were collecting $5 from each passenger to bribe customs officials, they were dealing with the actual bribery.

The situation improved a bit in some countries, or just got a lot more expensive. You can still bribe policemen in Eastern Europe, but it is not working with $5 anymore, it takes 20 or 50. But we had a minister of agriculture arrested and convicted for getting bribed with sausages and booze, just to give an example of how weird the bribery can be.

There's no official handbook to bribing, but you can pass your papers to the officer along with some money tucked inside and you'll get back just the papers if the officer is corrupt.

The cops know how to ask!

I had a couple of experiences in post-war Bosnia. A policeman would pull you aside for “speeding” and ask for 50 Marks (they had convertible Deutschmark as currency at the time). After some haggling they would agree to a 5 Marks reduced fine and give you a “receipt” from a standard notebook.

You pay in cash and state you don’t need a receipt. I’m fairly certain that the speeding ticket I received in some southern african country never appeared on the official ledger. You pay “advisors” that facilitate the border crossing. Plenty of ways to keep the image of respectability while still having cash change hands.

I don't know what it's like in Pakistan, but I was watching something recently where a westerner took a driving test in India, and literally all he had to do was reverse about 5 metres. All this on camera, and the driving tester didn't bat an eyelid, like this was totally OK.

Having travelled a fair bit in India, I've seen accidents happen in front of me, I've seen the aftermath of many more, and I've seen ienumerable near misses - after seeing the driving test, it explained a lot!

Yep! This is how it works in India. Very basic test - drive round a block, reverse and do an L parking without hitting the tires. That was it in my case (2016)

The silver lining is that it was worse before. People literary did not have to go to the authorities to get their licenses; just pay a middle man some money you'll have your license in your hands in the comfort of your homes. So yaay!(?)

This was pretty much what I did for a driving test in Massachusetts 15 years ago. Mine was even easier..., I just had to execute a three point turn.

> In Switzerland […] EU/EEA licenses and US licenses can and must be exchanged within one year

But you don't need to pass any test, they just exchange the paper (at least for EU licenses).

Yep, and the same goes for US, Canadian, Australian, and a few other licenses. There's no preference towards EU/EEA licenses but probably due to reciprocity (?) Switzerland implements it for all EU/EEA countries. My point was in response to the EU license exchange facilitation in Sweden that the GP mentioned, as that isn't specifically due to the more stringent licensing in all of those countries.

> The EU/EEA reciprocity is due to EU regulations, not the assumption that every EU country has better driving license standards than every other country.

The EU reciprocity is based on a common binding framework for driving exams, with common minimal requirements, and Switzerland adheres to it via bilateral agreements.

The requirement to exchange the license is just an administrative one, there is no theory or driving test for EU and EFTA nationals (there is a vision test though).

I honestly don't know how you thought this was about the US. The thread is about the EU safety agency and Pakisti airlines.

I also have no idea how this is even getting votes instead of being deleted.

Same annoyance for any Canadian that moves down to California to live / work.

When I speak to people from countries like Indonesia or Morocco, they act surprised when I mention things like "driver's exam" to them, because apparently in such countries most people obtain their driver's licenses by an "expediting fee" to a government official or a police officer.

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