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Comment by kanobo | Hacker News Reader

Yes, that's the idea. Maybe it's a bad idea.... but I used to hide a real key but that seemed like an even worse idea.

A better and safer idea is to leave a spare key with a trusted friend or relative.

The idea might be weird to approach at first, but you'd be surprised how many people run out and make a copy of their key for you to hold onto too.

Yeah, this. If you're lucky enough to have family or a good friend nearby (someone who you could call at 11pm to get it, and who would understand). Just give them a copy of your key. Like insurance, you hope you never need it, but if you do, you'll be glad you did.

It can be done reasonably safely. Put it in an envelope, sign across the flap. Now you both know if they use it. You can still call them and ask them to open it, run over and turn off the stove or whatever, and sign another envelope when you get home.

I think this would make a lot of people uncomfortable. I'm relatively pragmatic and untrusting, but I would be offended if someone I knew did this to me. And if it were a neighbour I didn't really know, I would be a bit worried: now I have the responsibility of keeping their key secure, and if I lose it they will suspect me of stealing it, and all for the privilege of being asked to do a favour for a borderline stranger who doesn't even consider me trustworthy.

Its for both your peace of mind. You come home from vacation, something you misplaced makes you concerned its gone, but the key from next door is still in the envelope. So no suspicion there.

Maybe works better for business. I did this with the insurance agent next door when I was running an Engineering office.

I agree with GP (retsibsi). The envelope thing says, "I trust you enough to give you a key... but I don't really trust you, so I'm also giving it to you in this weird signed envelope thing." You either trust them or you don't, and you're asking them to do you a favor.

Plus, if they have a sealed envelope with the key, they can get enough information about the key (the key bitting) to make a copy. They don't need to open the envelope, they just need to press the envelope down enough to see the shape of the key.

Hm. The neighbor was reluctant to take the key, until we came up with a way they would not add risk to themselves. It was a compromise.

I should add to my other replies: I don't mean to criticise you personally, or your actions in your own particular case. In the general case I think the envelope proposal would often cause offence, but as a compromise with someone initially reluctant, it sounds like it was a clever solution.

It does make sense, but I still don't think I could avoid that emotional reaction. It's the combination of asking for a favour while simultaneously signalling that you don't trust me. If we're in zero-trust stranger-to-stranger mode, why should I do this favour at all? It only has downsides for me, including the possibility that something goes wrong (envelope lost or damaged) and I come under suspicion.

That's a good idea.

Although, I'm inclined to say if you're giving your house key to someone you don't completely trust, you should maybe seek an alternate candidate.

Then again, "trust, but verify" is indeed a real thing. Your system provides the verification part.

Anyone thinking of going to this much effort: signatures are easily forged. Use glitter lipstick to seal the envelope and take a photo of the pattern - nobody will ever lay the same glitter pattern again.

This is the normal and traditional way to do it where I live (west of Paris)

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