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Comment by Keycap | Hacker News Reader

Do you have any argument for it or is it a generic statement independent of anything?

Because there have been other 'fads' still being strong today.

Kubernetes solves real problems which have been hard for a long time. Its the first thing you, as an infrastructure team, want to have to be able to provide your teams a manageable environment for yourself.

mesos, nomad, docker swarm and co.

Developers don't want a VM and you can't manage and maintain VMs if someone else is doing something with them.

Cloud native is here to stay; It will affect and already affects tools, applications and architecture.

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> ________ solves real problems which have been hard for a long time.

Please replace with Ansible, Chef, Puppet, HP Vault, Solaris Zones, OpenMosix, Bewolf, Grid Computing, MTS, CORBA, JEE .....

An argument based on seeing hype come and go, sellig conferences, books, certifications, consulting, training, and naturally one selfs curriculum.

Speaking of which,

"Kubernetes Certified Application Developer (CKAD) with Tests"

https://www.udemy.com/course/certified-kubernetes-applicatio...

So you are saying that Ansible, Chef and puppet are fads? That solve no real problems?

OpenMosix, Bewolf and Grid computing were mostly confined on research circles. I never saw them took off like K8s did.

So comparing K8s with OpenMosix is a bit unfair...

I am saying that apparently they are not good enough for the Kubernetes generation.

Eventually there will come the post-Kubernetes generation and the cycle does yet another turn.

'Not good enough'?

Do you now think progress is bad?

Ansible and co did and still do a great job.

kubernetes is not just a thing, its also a paradigma shift.

It sounds like something new is just bad because its new?

What paradigm shift and what novelty?

My first containers were called HP-UX Vaults in 1999.

The cycle continues its reboot.

It doesn't.

Its getting refined, standardized and widely used.

k8s for me is the shift to a declarative infrastructure. Easy to put in your source code repository.

Also as a goody you get industry leaders offering a certified k8s experience.

And all of it is opensource and free.

A fully platform independent orchestration platform.

> Developers don't want a VM and you can't manage and maintain VMs if someone else is doing something with them.

I want a VM because I want my dev environment to exactly replicate the production environment, down to the kernel. It also means that if I leave my employer I can just delete my VM on my personal machine.

We've also not had any issues with maintaining production VMs, our release pipeline packages up our code into a debian package and them creates a VM image from that. This is then deployed across all regions. If you need to roll back just deploy the previous VM image version. GCP handles killing old instances and starting new instances for you.

>We've also not had any issues with maintaining production VMs, ... If you need to roll back just deploy the previous VM image version. ...

We've also not had any issues with breeding horses....If I just need to go somewhere I just ride my horse...

I don't see any value in cars(k8s). They are complex (oil changes, fuel consumption etc...)

I did not talk about your specific use case.

Feel free to be happy with your setup.

Also i'm not able to determine if your setup would still be much better (faster, easier to maintain etc.) if you would set completly on containers instead of a VM as i'm not aware of your workload at all.

Having the application run the same in dev as in production is one of the main selling features of a containerized environment.

As far as I'm aware containers do not replace the kernel, only userland.

This is of course important but only for people who actually need this guarantee.

Yes if you are developing C/C++/Assembly then Kubernetes/containers might not be for you.

But for several other companies (e.g. Java users) the kernel version is not important.

So we are back to same argument. Just because that you personally don't see value in something, doesn't mean that it is a fad.

Java users are doing just fine with application containers.

That is a whole different discussion. If by application container you mean Tomcat then maybe. But if you mean Weblogic or Oc4j or WebSphere then hell no :-)

Then maybe you agree that Kubernetes brought some advantages that until recently only Java devs enjoyed to the rest of the world (PHP, Python etc)?

Yes I mean WebSphere.

Kubernetes is a kludge to solve problems that should be sorted out by the respective language communities.

Then there is the whole issue that interpreters without JIT/AOT should only be used for scripting.

> Just because that you personally don't see value in something, doesn't mean that it is a fad

GP is the one who made blanket statement 'developers don't want a VM', not me.

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