The
>"radical free speech" crowd
understands hurting other people's feelings, they just don't believe anyone should be compelled by law not to hurt someone else's feelings.
>"radical free speech" crowd
understands hurting other people's feelings, they just don't believe anyone should be compelled by law not to hurt someone else's feelings.
>We're telling you, if you act like an asshole other people might not like it and that's fair.
Trust me abrasive people understand this, some of them get off on it.
>And that you can get fired for being an asshole.
I agree if you're an asshole it is grounds for firing. I've worked with some real abusive dickheads before who should have been fired. The difficulty is in judging what is crossing the line. I've worked at places where people should have been fired (constant abusive sex jokes) and weren't because they held too much power. I've also worked at places where you could get fired for publicly having conservative opinions and where you were constantly walking on eggshells. It's a real tyrany in both cases but I don't see an obvious solution.
What I am saying is you might think JP lit a stupid fire, but don't forget that a lot of people came along and poured a lot of oil it.
I find it a bit odd that people are mad at a guy for having concerns about a proposed law and raising them as part of the bill's scrutiny process. And don't forget that in the end, the lawmakers weren't persuaded by his arguments, and passed the law anyway.
Would people rather live in a world where laws are passed without scrutiny, everybody keeops quiet and nobody makes a fuss? I still think somewhere underneath all the nonsense a lot of valuable public discussions were had.
Including on HN.
The most powerful thing about words is the power the listener gives them.
I hope I've successfully fallen between the cracks of the perspective you outlined.
Human beings are neurologically wired to biologically respond to communication from other beings. A classic example is nursing women who express milk when hearing a baby cry.
There are many other examples of involuntary responses to environmental stimulus, much of which include human communication. Loud noises cause involuntarily muscular response, sexual display increases heart rates, threatening behavior (including language) floods the bloodstream with cortisol.
In other words, we may (if we're lucky) modulate our actions in response to what people say to us but there is much evidence to suggest we have little to no control over the feelings that words may elicit.
If you call me a racial slur, and I honestly don't give a shit, what power do you have over me?
Intentionally obtuse people exists. Intentionally obtuse responses exist and are not rare. Treating them as good faith does not work and just gives them more power. You change situation into innocent one and that is different topic.
> If you call me a racial slur, and I honestly don't give a shit, what power do you have over me?
If I call you racial slur, I have reason for that. It is likely that I want to let you know that your kind including you is not welcome in this team, company, street, whatever. It is first warning and if you stay, expect to deal with my hostility (direct or passive aggressive or purely behind back). It also means I am more likely to be creating narratives in my head to use against you behind your back.
So, if you call me racial slur, what power you have? Is this the first sign I would watch out for hostility and to watch my back from you? Is this sign you will be biased while evaluating my work? Biased evaluation is super hard to prove or recognize before it does damage, pretty often it just lowers targets confidence in first stages.
Are you being intentionally hostile and if I stay near you, you will escalate? Racial slur is hostility and if I don't notice first hostile signs, I am more at risk.
Are you a colleague I need to cooperate with, now knowing you take me as lesser? Will I be blamed if that cooperation fails? Or someone whose explanations and answers I need? Are you a manager? Or, are we in a bar and this means I better leave? Are you a cop and this is first warning that my rights are at risk?
I realize there are intentionally obtuse people out there, but I don't think you were being one of them. And I believe that the pathway to a better society is presuming positive intent until demonstrated otherwise. And even perhaps one step beyond. What looks like undeniable hatred to you may actually be benighted misunderstanding and ignorance that deserves to be corrected, lovingly and gradually if needed, over the course of a lifetime.
I believe my examples, especially regarding blood cortisol levels with regard to threatening behavior, are very relevant.
Another example
> I felt a moment of anger
You controlled your response, but you likely had little to no control over that initial “moment of anger”, which is my point.
> even teach yourself to internally process those messages as constructively
No, you need to teach yourself to respond to them. And for that you need to stop pretending they do no harm. And stop blaming yourself for feeling bad after someone insulted you. Really, when someone insults you, feeling hurt is normal human reaction. Not "your responsibility to constructively respond" or to teach yourself to stop feeling.
That is just being doormat and doormats gets bullied. That is how women in 1950 were taught to act while males responded to insults. Males were the ones who had respect.
I'm simply pointing out that there's another option, which is to get off that train. And it's actually quite simple to do.
There's a little voice in our heads that says we can't let the other person win. If you want to, you can ask it questions. Like, win at what? What's the prize? What is it worth? And not always, but sometimes, the answer is there nothing at stake and you should pick your battles.