Comment by scottlocklin | Hacker News Reader

Comment by scottlocklin | Hacker News Reader

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It's not clear that knightly training was as useful as UFC training. Ineffective martial arts were a big deal for literal decades before the Gracie family came along, I guess because people didn't want to put in a mouth guard and see what happens. How often did the knights actually see combat, as opposed to train for combat, and do non-lethal sparring? The one form of training which is of undoubted utility is group tactics, but it's unclear what the non-mounted training was for this sort of thing for most times/places.

You're also probably discounting what peasant style manual labor (and hobbies, which include beating the shit out of each other with fists, clubs, etc) does for your combat ability. Hand and wrist strength is a huge deal in pre-firearms days, and peasants were at least 3-4 standard deviations stronger in these ways than average people now (really: that much -I've fooled around with building hand strength and it's bonkers how strong people can get in this domain). People basically exerted their strength through simple hafted tools all day; makes them good at exerting their strength through simple hafted tools all day. Regarding group tactics; peasants had lots of games which could have helped them with this. For example, Hurling[0], and I'm sure there was lots of stuff like Calcio Storico[1].

The real advantage the knights had (beyond equipment, like horses and the morale of feeling superior to the peasant) was probably nutrition. They spent most of their downtime hunting, feasting and eating meat, and between wearing heavy armor and their strength oriented workouts, the knights were probably pretty jacked. 50 or 100lbs of muscle and fat and 6-8" of height helps a lot. I don't have references in front of me for this, but David Willoughby talks about some of this in his book, and I'm sure you can see it in skeletons of Nobles versus peasants (aka Nobles will have larger skeletons with 'deformities' at the muscle attachment points).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurling

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVJEvtkFKBc

>> it's unclear what the non-mounted training was for this sort of thing for most times/places.

That would be the Melee [1]:

"Tournaments often contained a mêlée consisting of knights fighting one another on foot or mounted, either divided into two sides or fighting as a free-for-all. "

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tournament_(medieval)#Melee

Knights in different places at different times saw combat at different rates. If you lived on the Scotish borders or the Welsh marches you would be very likely to see combat on a regular basis. Raiding was a way of life for both sides... England was probably relatively unusual in having a relatively stable core for a relatively long time, but even then civil strife was not uncommon, and wars were fought as soon as either side could afford them. I think that a medieval knight that didn't take martial training really seriously risked being killed pretty promptly. On the other hand I guess that there was a large random element and there may have been a bit of "it makes no real difference so sod it" in their attitude, I don't suppose we will ever know because it seems that there was no real attempt to codify and share the knowledge - it was an oral tradition.

If you don't mind could you tell me what exercises exercises you use to build hand strength, or even just post a link?

Block weights, sledgehammer levers, captains of crush grippers, fat grip barbells/dumbbells; even a large bucket of water and a pair of pliers. Brookfield's books are considered canonical, and everyone who is anyone (I'm not anyone) in grip is on grip board[0]. I was first made aware of it looking at this dude's geoshitties website[1], which is mercifully still around and a great beginners resource.

To sell you on it a bit: if you've lifted for ~10 years you've probably hit your biological peak on the big exercises, and you've gone into some kind of maintenance mode, or are concentrating more on strength endurance, or rotating through peak efforts on different kinds of strength, or working around inevitable injuries or whatever. Either way, a man gets bored, and a large part of the appeal of strength training is the feeling of making progress. Various forms of hand strength; there's basically infinite potential there. Leonardo used to bend horseshoes, and it's a seemingly impossible feat I think most men are capable of with some training. It's also something available to old people who might not be able or willing to pull 5 wheels on the deadlift any more. You can, of course, injure your hands or forearms, but your chances of being crippled by it are fairly low. The other thing about it; you can train a fair amount (unlike big lifts) without blowing out your cortisol, but you get that intense triumphant grrrrrrr ogre nerve energy from doing it that you do after a max effort lift. Also it looks cool and chicks and small children dig it when you do seemingly impossible feats.

Anyway, peasants who hoed their crops and lifted bricks all day were fucking STRONG in the hands. Probably stronger than most nobles in that regard.

[0] https://www.gripboard.com/index.php?/forum/7-workout-reports...

[1] http://www.geocities.ws/ltgodfrey/lever.html

Seriously, much, much thanks. My training is bodyweight exclusively (Convict Conditioning), so, I have relatively weak wrists and forearms.I have hit a pullup plateau (weights are expensive around my parts, and the gym is COVID-closed.), so these tips should be a real help.

Decent program, but try to get some lower back work in there. That's an investment you absolutely won't regret. Sandbags work and are cheap; big rocks too. Bridges if nothing else.

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