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Comment by corysama | Hacker News Reader

I once watched a very high level computer science presentation given by a professor with a very heavy, twangy southern drawl. The whole time I struggled with the disconnect between how my mind knew he was very clearly much smarter than I ever hope to be vs. my gut's reaction to his manner of speaking.

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Part of our team was in huntsville AL (we're based in massachusetts). We had to interface with them. Really great people. The accents were amusing (to me) for the first couple weeks, but after a while it just stopped. I now associate all UI/UX on unix discussions with southern accents.

Don't worry, in the south we think your yankee accents are equally wild.

I lived in Huntsville for a little bit, and the people there had greatly diminished southern accents compared to the rest of the state. It was super noticeable.

I have this same issue. We are a northern US company and one of our programmers is from the deep south. It is so hard to take him seriously with that accent which I automatically associate with uneducated rednecks. I've literally spent years trying to overcome my bias against the southern accent. One bizarre aspect to this is I was on the interview committee and am the one that convinced everyone else to hire him.

Maybe you overcompensate and the bias is actually in the other direction? It's the subperceptual bias that's the real stinker not the stuff you notice.

I grew up in the rural south, and was explicitly taught that our accent would be perceived this way. It served me well, maybe; I was always aware of my accent and able to camouflage it and eventually lose it almost entirely when I went away to college.

I'm similar in that I learned to hide my west Texas accent pretty well. I've started to embrace my accent more though in that it's always useful when people reveal their prejudices, and I'd rather people take me as I am. Otherwise they're probably not worth my time.

There are situations where it's actually useful though to lay it on thick. My father was an expert at that, particularly after people tried to take advantage of them and he called their bluff, usually playing it up with, "Ya know, I don't know much 'bout this, but I was talkin' with a lawyer friend the other day, and he mentioned something about..."

I grew up in the Deep South. My German immigrant mother used to say "Southerners step on their words before they say them."

I think she genuinely struggled to understand some Southerners. I don't think she was merely being catty.

(I grew up correcting her English pronunciation. I can remember her still pronouncing the silent K on words like knuckles when I was a child. She spoke no English when she met my father.)

Native Texan, here. Can confirm, southerners step on their words. Darn=dern. Can't=cain't. Pedernales=Perdenales.

This is an internalized bias many hold (I am not criticizing you personally, really just making a diagnostic and/or societal observation).

Anecdote: I know an executive at a major US biotech originally hailing from South Carolina who dials up the Southern accent to 11 when discussing science in order to mess with people’s heads

As someone who grew up in west Texas, the struggle is real to not sound like a moronic hick. I do a pretty good job, unless I spend any more than a day or two around relatives, then it takes me a couple of weeks to stop the drawl.

Biggest difference for me though, is my regional vocabulary. For example, a refrigerator will always be an icebox for me.

You make me think of this interview https://lexfridman.com/jim-keller/ where Jim sounds kinda hokey to me.

Holy shit, I immediately thought of this interview while reading all these comments, but Jim is literally one of the smartest people I've heard speak.

West coast people are extremely biased, bigoted, and hateful against Southerners. The fact that you even have this bias is a tragedy.

Source: Grew up in rural South. Work in west coast tech. :(

I spent six months working at a FAANG in the bay area after 20 years of living a rural lifestyle in the midwest. I lived in Mountain View and really tried to soak in the difference...I didn't even bother to get a vehicle. That proclamation alone will be cringy for some of you, but it's unthinkable where I live now and where I'd lived every day prior.

At first I felt that I was seeing an environment that is truly 'the future' of integrated multi-culturalism. I just marveled at the fact that on my walk to the store, maybe half of the conversations I overheard were in English. Authentic food and art and music from all over the planet was so accessible, likewise my team was from all over the planet and it was really cool.

Then I realized that I didn't really see any black folks. Anywhere. I mean infosec has a lot of work to do with diversity to be sure, so I wasn't particularly surprised that there was just one black guy on the team. But then I started looking on my way to and from work, at the store, at restaurants, etc. Nada. Then I started getting creeped out, and that one blind spot really started uncovering quite a few more, particularly around the assumptions I was hearing folks make about people that I had direct experience with. This created a Truman Show-esque unraveling and after a while I decided that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. I got somehow disgusted with the place, quit and moved back home.

It's not better here, but at least it's not pretending to be. I'm starting to look at relocating again, but it's not going to be to the west coast. I really hate generalizing and to be clear, there are some amazing folks out there that aren't part of the echo chamber, and the access to a broad cultural base not to mention the weather/natural setting is beyond compare IMHO. But it's just too volatile at the moment and I'm not in a position where it makes sense to basically 'start over' financially for a location that, for the most part, is just overwhelmed with its own pious fantasy.

What I’ve noticed in the Bay Area is a “fetishization” of multi-culturalism; at least amongst the upper-middle class. Lots of “it’s so great our community is diverse”, but then I realized that’s more of “it’s great I can find authentic Mexican food" or "the Chinese New Year Parade is so fun!", but it's pretty apparent by their behavior they are not comfortable with them living in their neighborhood.

Or they’re comfortable with an ethic group in their neighborhood as long as they are firmly Westernized and of a similar socioeconomic class. Outside of that there is very little interest in mixing other than as some fun Sunday leisure activity. Like going to the zoo.

> Or they’re comfortable with an ethic group in their neighborhood as long as they are firmly Westernized and of a similar socioeconomic class.

I believe an acclimatization two-way street is a big factor in successful multicultural co-existence. Food seems to be a powerful bonding agent for many people. My neighbor invites me over for Chinese Moon Festival with mooncakes I've never had before, I invite him over to my hunting lease to shoot some doves and fry them up with bacon. Substitute baba ganoush and BBQ, biryani and buffalo wings, pho and Philadelphia cheesesteak, menudo and Marzetti beef-and-pasta casserole, etc., that's why I love American street parties in multicultural neighborhoods, Americans by and large love sharing with each other at these events. Kids, similar parenting styles arising from similar aspirations and similar ideas on how to achieve those aspirations seem to be another powerful bonding agent.

But I do draw the line somewhere. Much as I love eating it, you can't convince me anyone of any culture will ever be comfortable with their neighbors making stinky tofu in their backyard. I hear even the Chinese impose requirements upon those making stinky tofu to stay away from residential areas.

It’s the same everywhere in the world. You might notice it more in a place with a wider gap or more socioeconomic classes. It’s inevitable for humans to form tribes along those lines, for a variety of reasons.

Oh I agree. There is something hardwired in the human brain to form alliances with other humans “similar to you” - whatever that means. Not necessarily race, but it could be language, socioeconomic status, geography, family lineage, etc. Take your pick.

What annoys me about the Bay Area types I’m talking about is they think they’ve risen above it. They haven’t, they just do it differently.

> but it's pretty apparent by their behavior they are not comfortable with them living in their neighborhood.

> Or they’re comfortable with an ethic group in their neighborhood as long as they are firmly Westernized and of a similar socioeconomic class.

Well this has been a criticism leveled at the Bay Area / "woke" / SJW / whatever-label-you-want-to-use crowd for awhile. Diversity of phenotype and genotype is acceptable. Diversity of viewpoint is not.

There are plenty of black folks in SV, but they're driving the shuttle buses, while the Latinos are in the kitchen at the company cafeteria.

And yes, the juxtaposition of this with all the mandatory diversity woo woo was a bit jarring.

LOL! Just one hour ago, a high school kid who grew up here in Silicon Valley was telling me about how ridiculously uninformed his local friends are about Southerners. This kid has visited the south a few times recently and has come back amazed at how friendly, smart, and mannered southerners are. (I agree with his assessment, but I've seen it myself often enough in my own travels that I lump it in with the many no-longer-surprising differences between reality and intellectual fashion. He was confiding in me, because he guessed that I would be one of the few who might understand.)

He has apparently tried to correct his friends' misconceptions a few times, and has been equally amazed at 1) how wrong their ideas of southerners are and 2) how nothing he can tell them has any impact their thinking as they crow about how superior we are to those contemptible southerners, who aren't "tolerant" like we are. (One more LOL for the road....)

I live in Europe and have never visited the States. I think your comment goes some way towards explaining Donald Trump. And probably your next few Republican presidents, I'd guess.

Everybody hates their neighbors and city folk hate the country folk. Such is the way of the world...

National Brotherhood Week (Tom Lehrer)

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks, And the black folks hate the white folks. To hate all but the right folks Is an old established rule. But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek. It's fun to eulogize The people you despise, As long as you don't let 'em in your school.

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks, And the rich folks hate the poor folks. All of my folks hate all of your folks, It's American as apple pie.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic. Step up and shake the hand Of someone you can't stand. You can tolerate him if you try.

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics, And the Catholics hate the Protestants, And the Hindus hate the Moslems, And everybody hates the Jews.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week. Be nice to people who Are inferior to you. It's only for a week, so have no fear. Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

LOL I was just looking that one up! It's a classic!

Ah hail from rural Indianer. Gots ma own achent. Or, at least I used to. Been away from the Midwest long enough that most of it has rubbed off. I don't think I would have reacted any differently before I moved. In the Midwest the only time you'd ever hear such a drawl was in media showing the South from 60+ years ago.

Are you in SF? When I lived in LA, this seemed like far less of an issue than in Northern California, where people seemed incredibly stuck up and generally awful. Something like 40% of LA doesn’t speak English at home and I would imagine a comparable number (if not more) speak with some kind of accent. If you clung to judging people because of their accents, you’d find yourself outside most social circles there.

> I would imagine a comparable number (if not more) speak with some kind of accent

Everyone speaks with ‘some kind of accent’.

We can probably assume, charitably, that they meant relative to the predominant local dialect.

For what it's worth, as someone originally from a semi-rural area, I think there is some truth to the idea that some in SF have an anti-rural bias.

Yes, of course. Native Californians often asked me where I was originally from based solely on my noticeable Midwestern accent.

I guess this comment is snark, but I don’t know what the connotation of a Midwestern accent is in California to know for sure.

But anyway as you say, you do still speak with an accent even if it is a common one. We all speak with accents!

Not snark at all. I don’t know the connotations because I’m not a Native Californian, but people would comment about how my speaking nasally and apologizing too much (both of which you can find in just about any parody of Midwestern culture).

As a native californian, the only connotation I know of having a Midwest accent is about the sounds.... there is no real characteristic that the accent evokes

I remember in the last handful of decades some great mystery/thriller movies with sophisticated characters where they were using Texan and Louisianan accents (think No Country for Old Men). That, to me, is what made it all the more interesting, although these weren't full on accents by comparison to how people from these places can really speak like.

Most of the lead actors in No Country for Old Men are from outside the region, compare Kelly Macdonald speaking in that with Trainspotting.

> sophisticated characters where they were using Texan and Louisianan accents

And then there was Daniel Craig doing an atrocious southern accent in Knives Out.

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