Comment by cloudinshape | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cloudinshape | Hacker News Reader

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> If economic growth outpaces debt growth then it does not ever have to be paid back.

Bernie Maddoff said the same thing. He also tried to create a perpetual motion machine.

> Canada has been paying everyone $2000/month this whole time)

Canada has been lending everyone $2000/month this whole time.

> Bitcoin cannot and will not change the wealth gap when it’s overwhelmingly spoken for already.

Again, you don't understand what bitcoin is, nor money apparently. People don't stash money away, not all of it anyways, and specially not when its inflation rate is limited (as in there is not a lot of excess to stash like right now), they use it to buy stuff, to pay for stuff, to invest in stuff, they enjoy it, that is why you want money in the first place! Money is, was and always will be exchanged, which means it changes hands. Odd concept, I know.

> backed on an inflation schedule created and managed not by economists or experts but a narcotics smuggler and a bunch of random GitHub contributors.

Yes, the "experts" managing the "economy" right now are doing such a great job.

> just taking your ball to the BVI isn’t a solution.

At some point, sooner rather than later by the looks of it, it will be the only solution.

> If you really want to change society for the better, run for office, don’t shill magic beans.

Weird advice from someone convinced we'll never have to pay back our debts.

> Bernie Maddoff said the same thing. He also tried to create a perpetual motion machine.

Bernie Madoff doesn't get to print his own currency, you see why that's different right? You know who does though? Tether.

> Canada has been lending everyone $2000/month this whole time.

Paying. Lending implies that it has to be returned, it does not.

> Again, you don't understand what bitcoin is, nor money apparently.

Incorrect, I know what money is for and how it works. I don't disagree with anything you said about money. What I disagree with is that inflation matters in that context. It does not. I also see Bitcoin as having been spoken for already, and it has. with a worse wealth distribution than a banana republic, which it has.

> Yes, the "experts" managing the "economy" right now are doing such a great job.

Inflation has been in a tightly controlled 1-2% range in the US since the 1970s. They are. So forgive me for not giving a bunch of un-elected, un-accountable randos with commit privileges and a narcotics trafficker the steering wheel lol.

> At some point, sooner rather than later by the looks of it, it will be the only solution.

Agree to disagree.

> Weird advice from someone convinced we'll never have to pay back our debts.

Who is "our" and why does one have anything to do with the other?

> Bernie Madoff doesn't get to print his own currency, you see why that's different right? You know who does though? Tether.

As I said, you don’t understand money. Currency is not wealth. Purchasing power cannot be printed, despite what MMT claims real wealth has to be produced using real resources. You can print all the dollars you want, in fact, that is exactly what the monopoly board game creators do.

> Paying. Lending implies that it has to be returned, it does not.

As I said, again, you don’t understand what money is. Under the current system all money is debt. And governments have no purchasing power to give but what they confiscate from citizens via taxes in the present, or take via inflation from the future. Either way, canadians are paying those $2000 back.

> Inflation has been in a tightly controlled 1-2% range in the US since the 1970s. They are. So forgive me for not giving a bunch of un-elected, un-accountable randos with commit privileges and a narcotics trafficker the steering wheel lol.

Which is why the FED came out saying they are gonna increase the rate of inflation that has actually been lower than reported all these past years right? The inflation metrics do not represent real inflation and even the FED admitted it, nor do they capture the wealth inequality even if they did. The riots on the streets, the uncertainty, most americans living paycheck to paycheck, miles of lines at food banks, most americans not having even $400 in savings, all signs of how the experts are such experts at managing the economy right? Not even 1 week of trouble could handle this wonderful economy when covid started they had to print trillions to bail out mega corporations. Such a well managed economy right?

> Who is "our" and why does one have anything to do with the other?

You, the one that claims having a printing press and growing gdp faster than inflation means governments will outrun debts. Don’t shill magic beans.

There is no getting around the fact Bitcoin is distributed in a fabulously unequal manner.

The rest of the world is going mint a set of new global elite because they mined a stack a coins when the computational cost was tiny? If crypto dream of having Bitcoin as some global reserve currency is achieved that is what will happen.

To be honest that situation is not far off the inherited wealth of a lot of the super rich families that exist now. But at least you know somewhere along the family tree something worthwhile was achieved. Their claim to wealth is not simply being on the right internet forum in 2010.

You should really go and spend some time learning about the current monetary and fiscal systems from places other than Bitcoin subreddits.

The claim that “Purchasing power cannot be printed, despite what MMT claims real wealth has to be produced using real resources” is trivially falsifiable. The M2 money supply is 15X what it was in the 1970s but inflation caused the value to drop to 1/7th. That means net new buying power was in fact created - doubled even. The reason is you have too simplistic an understanding of money. Velocity of money matters.

There’s actually a term for excess value created through the addition of new money into the supply which eludes me right now.

> Either way, canadians are paying those $2000 back.

You have way too simplistic a take on the current financial system. Money is a social construct.

> The inflation metrics do not represent real inflation and even the FED admitted it, nor do they capture the wealth inequality even if they did.

lol, inflation is defined in terms of a specific basket of goods and services. If they want to redefine the baskets that’s fine but there’s no such thing as real inflation and fake inflation any more than there’s real math and fake math. If you want, talking about quality of life, standard of living, all that — that’s a much more interesting topic and again 100% social policy not monetary.

> Such a well managed economy right?

Yep! Well managed money supply. Well managed economy, I’m not sure Id go that far but they are two different things.

> You, the one that claims having a printing press and growing gdp faster than inflation means governments will outrun debts. Don’t shill magic beans.

You’ve hopelessly entangled a temporary medium of exchange and a long-term store of value in your brain. This has confused your understanding of economics. Spend less time in Bitcoin subreddits.

Growing gdp faster than debt does allow you never to pay it off, this principal is one that extends from personal finance. If you have an interest only loan all you ever need to pay is the interest. If the growth in the loan interest remains lower than the growth in your income (or inflation) it’s not in your interest to pay back that loan. Doing so increases opportunity cost. You get that right?

I could pay off my whole mortgage today but I won’t. Because I can do more with that money, and expect a better return than mortgage interest minus inflation. So, I refinanced. Thanks to inflation and tax deductions, my real interest rate is almost 0%.

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