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> While the claim of full Level 5 autonomy without lidar is controversial, it’s possible that most Teslas on the road today will be capable of being upgraded to L5 capability via a software update.

How can you claim the current hardware on Teslas is capable of L5 when they haven’t even demonstrated L4 capability? Just saying it’s capable for full autonomy doesn’t actually make it so, they need to actually prove it.

Also, you (and Elon Musk) talk about Level 5 so casually when all the self driving companies out there strictly claim to aim for only Level 4.

Because humans are perfectly capable of doing this task with vision only. Which means it's effectively a visual modelilng task, and is only a question of computation technology, modelling and available FLOPS inside the car. It seems perfectly possible that the hardware in a current Tesla car is capable of this.

Sorry, this is just wishful thinking. Computers don’t have human brains which have evolved over millions of years. So just saying “if humans do it with only vision, so can computers” is frankly weak logic. The technology isn’t there yet to match human brain performance, unless you believe Tesla will achieve several breakthroughs in computer vision and AI to do this.

Who said that the technology was there? Did you even read the previous comments or just jumped onto the hate wagon because of preconceptions?

The question was why it is possible. Not why "it should work today", nor "why it will most definitely 100% happen guaranteed in the next couple of years".

So the technology isn’t there and nobody has gotten anywhere close to achieving those significant breakthroughs in vision or AI, but it’s “perfectly possible” with current hardware “because humans do it”? This answer makes no sense.

The real answer is nobody knows whether current hardware is enough or not, including Tesla. Until they demonstrate it, it’s just a claim. But they can’t sell the cars on FSD promise if they say it.

Humans don't need lidar -> that means all the information is present in the visual channel -> it is at least theoretically possible to do with cameras -> tesla cars have cameras -> tesla cars might have possibility to do it.

> it is at least theoretically possible to do with cameras

Theoretically, yes. But that’s different than confidently claiming it’s “perfectly possible” and that it’s only a question of computation and modeling.

Which is what the original poster wrote which you for some reason have a problem decoding:

"it’s possible that most Teslas on the road today will be capable of being upgraded to L5 capability via a software update."

He didn't say it will definitely guaranteed happen.

The antonym of the word possible is impossible, which if you try in that same sentence you'll see that it doesn't make any sense that way.

Tesla is categorically saying all their vehicles on the road have necessary hardware for full self driving. Did you somehow miss this? They’re taking money on this promise. So who cares if the original poster snuck in the word ‘possible’ or not?

Because you talk to and respond to people on this forum. You can't misrepresent what they write and call it "they snuck in a word". What kind of logic is that? To respond to some other claim from somewhere else on the internet, real or imaginary, regardless of what the person in question writes?

While I personally don't agree with your claim that "tesla categorically saying" those things, the poster still did say it even less.

This is what Tesla claim:

    The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.

You are welcome to present any links or quotes as to where you got the idea that Tesla claims that the vechicle is guaranteed to have FSD in some specific claimed time period (including a time period within each individual vechicle's lifespan).

I also personally know several Tesla owners and none of them interpret the company's claims the way you do. So who are all these people who you think are defrauded or lied to? Where are all the angry buyers who thought they were getting Level 5?

> To respond to some other claim from somewhere else on the internet, real or imaginary, regardless of what the person in question writes?

I'm responding to Tesla's official claims about FSD hardware.

> You are welcome to present any links or quotes as to where you got the idea that Tesla claims that the vechicle is guaranteed to have FSD in some specific claimed time period (including a time period within each individual vechicle's lifespan).

Way to move the goal post. This whole thread is about hardware, not OTA software updates or a timeframe to deliver FSD. They've repeatedly claimed since 2016 that all Teslas have necessary hardware for Level 5 functionality. I've explained in this comment chain why that claim is disingenuous.

Source: https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13340938/tesla-autopilot... and repeated Elon Musk tweets.

What about the other hardware, the computer doing the actual computations?

Stereo vision. Teslas to this day dont ship stereo front facing cameras. They arent even full color.

> just by an OTA software update and/or flipping some feature flags

Sounds like you might not have "experienced being a Tesla owner". There are a ton of Tesla's which, according to the company, will definitely require hardware updates for full self-driving.

https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer

They're not a tech company, but they think (and loudly say) they are, and that causes these kinds of problems. Using tech jargon does not a tech company make.

> my guess is that you’ve never experienced being a Tesla owner

This reminds me of something or rather some people as it oozes marketing speak when the experience of being a [product] owner is being talked about.

> not unlike an iPhone is a computer in your hand

And there it is.

They have similar levels of customer loyalty that baffle some outsiders, but at least one has a reputation for outstanding polish and customer experience and the other one has awful customer service and quality stories you can find every day.