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Comment by doteka | Hacker News Reader

I’d love to give Nim a shot, but comments like these from the author make sure I’ll never be able to take the language seriously:

(Context: gitter thread about frontend state management/immutable data structures, https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59722654bc46472974112028)

Araq: meh, I cannot watch these hipsters talk

Araq: as soon as I hear “business logic” I stop listening

He felt compelled to make these comments about a conference talk from Facebook, who are arguably running the largest web application in the world, regardless what you think about Facebook. Such a lack of humility does not instill confidence in project leadership.

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Well, offer up your language of choice, and I'm sure we could work together to find some online comments to assassinate the creators' character.

Perhaps instead of trying to drag someone in a public forum you should've reached out to him and brought it to his attention. Gitter is an IRC-esque platform, it's not exactly designed for deep academic discussions and thoughtful prose, it's a chatroom.

Also, since you've seen fit to bring up Facebook's project leadership, perhaps you should look at the MANY failings of theirs. Cambridge Analytica is only the most notorious, there are thousands of cases of injustice done for users. For a brand operating behind a mission of "connecting the world," they sure are disconnected from serving some of their users.

Facebook runs an impressive ship, sure. They are worthy of much less of my respect than Araq. I've written <1000 lines of Nim, so I'm no expert, but anybody can see that it's his pride and joy. I applaud him for remaining human.

Grow up.

That would be a great argument, except I didn't start out with the intention of assassinating anyone's character. The above thread is literally the 3rd search result for "Karax state management". You know, a very reasonable search query when someone's trying to determine whether a frontend framework is ready for production use. This does not bode well.

> Well, offer up your language of choice, and I'm sure we could work together to find some online comments to assassinate the creators' character.

Yeah, okay, let's play that game: you asked for it. Let's try to search for "Reagent state management", also the foremost frontend framework for a relatively obscure language (Clojurescript). I guarantee you will not find Rich Hickey making an ass of himself on the first page of results. I'm fairly certain you won't find it in the results at all, because he is more mature than that.

Let's try again for Scala.js: "Slinky state management". Again, no sign of Martin Odersky acting like an immature jackass anywhere in the search results.

Words matter. First impressions matter. If you don't realize that I'm afraid you are in need of growing up yourself.

I'm on mobile, but I'm certain Odersky was brutalized for "Pimp my library" or Pimp my Classes or something like that some years back.

I can appreciate your perspective a little more from your clarifying it. I stand by my original point that this is something NOT to be handled in public.

You're certainly right that it'd be hard to find Rich Hickey making an ass out of himself. I can't see myself arguing that anyhow. I guess I don't really think Araq made an ass out of himself in making that comment, especially with the context of the conversation. I think there is a lot of pretentious attitudes in front-end circles, and it's certainly very irritating to listen to people talk so highly of these things as if they are pristine towers of brilliance when it's JUST a webpage.

Fair point, although yourself gave me the wrong impression initially. karax doesn't support stateful components indeed.

You can certainly get stateful components with Karax. Perhaps I am missing something but Karax itself doesn't need any special support for them.

In the code for NimForum I've laid out each component as a stateful component, one example is the `threadlist` module: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum/blob/master/src/fronten.... You can see the `State` type defined there and all components follow this convention.

I just watched that Facebook F8 talk Araq gave up on quickly. It is a very high-level software engineering management sort of talk which actually becomes pretty clear pretty quickly. While at FB they may be engineers, at many other companies they could almost have been MBAs. I take Araq's comments as simply a lack of interest in discussion at that level, and his need to make said comments just an explanation to the conversor there and hardly worth making a big deal over.

In any event, even if you radically disagree with Araq's personal communication style, I think you should still give Nim a try. Many people do not like Linus Torvalds' communication style and still use Linux with great joy...

Oh man you're gonna have a heart attack if you ever look up some of Linus' comments.

glad subjects like you are getting filtered by themselves

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