Comment by reasonattlm | Hacker News Reader

Comment by reasonattlm | Hacker News Reader

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Being rich means that you have mastered how to turn time into money. Great. So you've got the hang of half of the game - which is no time to sit back and rest on your laurels.

Now you have to master turning money into time.

http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2008/02/what-is-wealth.ph...

We all go through engineering our cycles of property and time; how can we best optimize time to generate property that can be used to make our time more effective? We do this in small ways and large, but everyone does it. Some people do it so effectively they launch themselves into property escape velocity, exponentially increasing the effectiveness of their time and exploring the outer limits of what it means to maintain ownership of a great deal of property.

Interestingly, despite the grand importance of time as the absolute foundation of wealth, very little progress has been made in the most obvious optimization of all: creating property that can create more time. More heartbeats, more health, more time spent alive and active. Rejuvenation medicine, capable of repairing the damage of aging. Tissue engineering to generate replacements for worn organs. The cure for cancer. If you could do all that, then the much more productive form of escape velocity becomes possible - longevity escape velocity. Why strive to maintain an empire of property that will crumble to dust when the degenerations of age catch up with you when you could be that fit-looking guy having a blast swimming in the breakers every other Sunday for as long as you like?

Wealth is exactly time, and here we are, bordering the era of biotechnology for the repair of aging. Planning ahead for the best possible personal future starts with investment now. Think about it.

Interestingly, despite the grand importance of time as the absolute foundation of wealth, very little progress has been made in the most obvious optimization of all: creating property that can create more time.

Very little process ... since when? Doesn't all the progress from the belief in disease as unbalanced humours to MRI machines and lab grown bladders count? Universal cure for cancer, organ regrowth and regeneration, these aren't going to be single inventions by a single small team in one project, all changes in the world which make them more likely are progress.

when you could be that fit-looking guy having a blast swimming in the breakers every other Sunday for as long as you like?

If you could implant a realistic memory of you swimming in the breakers every other Sunday for a thousand years, such that you felt like you had had a long life, would you?

I'd say every labour saving device invented would qualify as property that can create more time.

As important as this is, I know people whose lives are so consumed by their quest for immortality that they go without much of what makes life worth living.

Pursuing the life of an ascetic and munching on supplements in the hope that you'll still be around when the singularity hits - it's not too far from giving yourself to religion.

> I know people whose lives are so consumed by their quest for immortality

Name three. And please note that Voldemort doesn't count because he's not a real person.

Hundreds of movie celebrities come to mind.

I would reverse your question and name people who, even though they could have lived more, they chose not to do so: I will name a heavyweight: Albert Einstein

> Hundreds of movie celebrities come to mind.

If they're not signed up for cryonics, at their income level, I don't buy that they're actually consumed by anything remotely resembling a quest for technological immortality, as opposed to merely trying to grab onto their fading youth using conventional and uninteresting methods.

When I was in 5th grade, Tuck Everlasting was required reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Tuck-Everlasting-Sunburst-Natalie-Babb...

Yes, it's aimed toward 10 year olds, but it's pretty relevant here. It'd probably take less than an hour for an adult to read, which should be just a blip on your quest for immortality. :-)

As important as this is, I know people whose lives are so consumed by their quest for immortality that they go without much of what makes life worth living.

This is a synopsis of a short story by Larry Niven.

Yes, it's a synopsis of a lot of stories. But I feel obliged to point out that, in real life, I know a number of people in quest of immortality who lead quite awesome lives on a day-to-day basis, because the same style of rationality and nonconformity that leads you to seek world optimization and indefinite life extension also leads you to, say, polyamory.

I also know some sad people in quest of immortality, but they were generally sad before they found out about that stuff. In general, I think that seeking immortality has surprisingly little effect on your prior personality. It's just something you do if you have enough of a logical frame of mind to think "Life is good, death is bad, and Voldemort isn't a real person", but the logical mind is the cause, not the effect.

In general, I think that seeking immortality has surprisingly little effect on your prior personality.

The phenomenon of people getting too involved in X to enjoy life is a common theme for stories. When X has to do with the extension of life, there's a pleasingly ironic self-reference. So really, the moral lesson of such stories has to do with life balance generally, and the ironic twist is more akin to a rhyme in a poem.

If I could guess, 100% of the people are male. Polyamory is usually one guy and more women and is usually quite the sexist thing. Seeking life extension is at the current point of science not really rational.

"If I could guess, 100% of the people are male."

Thank you for making a testable prediction. Your hypothesis is thereby falsified.

"Polyamory is usually one guy and more women and is usually quite the sexist thing. "

Good heavens, what sort of culture-free hole were you raised in? Do you know anyone polyamorous in real life?

"Seeking life extension is at the current point of science not really rational."

And there you have it. If you're anti-fun, you're probably also anti-life.

I know a polyamourous married woman. She's also one of the most intelligent women I know.

Not seeking life extension at all is definitely not rational. Perhaps it's rational not to seek it personally, but that's a personal choice. I think our society should seek life extension as an ethical choice.

I have a hard time understanding that argument. Cheeseburgers don't make my life worth living. Healthier food can be quite tasty. Exercise can be fun. Supplements are a very minor inconvenience taking up maybe a minute per day.

Even without the singularity argument, a healthy lifestyle can help avoid some really miserable life experiences. Heart disease, for example, can make it difficult to enjoy taking a nice walk.

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