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Comment by kichimi | Hacker News Reader

In one statement you just revealed your age and experience level.

The general trend in programming has been moving TOWARDS command line interfaces, not away from it. Mac OS didn't even have a built in command line until 2001. Microsoft Windows in the last few years has had its command line functionality enhanced, to the point that the GUI only Server versions of Windows have been stripped back, and now there are CLI only versions of Windows Server.

You can do more now in a command line than ever before, you can do more now in a command line than you could in 2001.

"Everything should have a GUI alternative" has been tried and it has failed. Almost all computer efforts through the 1990s were focused on making everything GUI only.

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>In one statement you just revealed your age and experience level.

What are you assuming about my experience level?

I thought it was perfectly clear that the argument isn't "there should be no command line" but that knowledge of the command like should't be necessary for beginners. Just like e.g. knowing assebler shouldn't be (and isn't) neccessary for programming. That's why I put the parenthesized statement above, specifically so you understand what the argument is. Or you could just read what I responded to.

I disagree completely, and I'm starting to see now that you do not see the command line as programming, which is a fundamental flaw in how you're approaching your argument.

The command line _IS_ a programming language. If you do not want to learn it then you do not want to learn programming.

If you do not want to learn it then you do not want to learn programming.

That is simply not true. I have plenty of colleagues that do everything in Visual Studio and never touch the command line and they produce solution to hard problems that are absolutely useful and well written.

The command line is 100% superfluous.

You can create and distribute a world-class iOS app without having to touch a command line even once. It is just not necessary. Nothing gets easier if you do.

Because iOS has actual well-designed modern tooling.

Developing iOS apps isn't the be-all, end-all of programming. iOS itself is a consumption platform. It's garbage if you want to actually do anything (and so is Android), because the input bandwidth is severely limited. You don't need a command line on your phone, because there's hardly much you can do with it anyway.

But sit in front of a device with a keyboard - one that's meant for creative use - and suddenly, the command line shines as a force multiplier.

None of that is relevant. iOS is a fully-fledged OS, with at least as much complexity as anything else you'd be programming for.

Yet, to program for it, you don't need to use the command line. You just never need to touch it. It is possible to make a fully productive programming environment where the command line is not necessary, if you just put the effort in to do it like Apple has.

iOS has one of the most pathetic development toolings in existence.

Your statement truly shows how unaware you are of actually good toolings and solutions for software development, and, frankly, you should not say a single word more about software development experience, if only not to embarrass yourself even further.

Android Studio is hideously bad as well. Mobile really has an awful developer experience.

Nonsense.

Oh, but it absolutely is not! You are most probably experiencing Stockholm syndrome towards iOS development experience, given lack of alternatives.

At least pro-console users had some sort of argument for their setups.

You cannot comprehend a simple idea that there are much better ways to develop software, than crippling, mind-bogglingly bad Xcode and friends.

I've been developing software for three decades in a very, VERY wide variety of environments.

I still find Xcode very productive, pleasant to use, and far better than almost any alternative I have seen.

It has some annoying bugs, some annoying limitations, but none that would make it any worse than the absolute shitshows you get elsewhere.

I do know what I am talking about, here. I have done a lot of this.

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