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Comment by kevin_thibedeau | Hacker News Reader

Be very careful about comparative gun death statistics. Suicide by gun often gets wrapped into "gun violence" figures than make the US stats look worse than they actually are.

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Your argument is not to worry as much about how bad the numbers are... because it’s just people choosing to shoot themselves?

Most suicide victims choose the most convenient method available to them and it isn't a deciding factor in their choice to suicide to begin with...

Guns are also more reliable with other methods having a less reliable outcome. Additionally, other methods may not be as convenient as “pull trigger and dead” (e.g. someone intentionally OD’ing & then having a change of heart & calling 911).

Can't you say the same thing about any violence? Guns don't cause the violence in the first place. If you didn't have a gun you'd be violent with a knife instead, if you'd already decided to be violent.

Yes, in fact. :)

So how does 'suicide by gun often gets wrapped into "gun violence" figures than make the US stats look worse than they actually are', which is what this thread was about?

Certain advocacy groups just report gun-involved deaths as a single statistic. Not if they are homicides or suicides.

This should be plainly obvious.

What point are you making? Other than perhaps unintentionally backing the pro-gun lobby idea that guns are just tools.

> What point are you making?

That if you're worried about the harmful effects of guns, don't discount suicide just because those people aren't harming you.

But we've just established that those people are going to kill themselves anyway. This is circular reasoning.

Means Matter https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/

yes, I worry a lot less about people shooting themselves than shooting me.

Care to prove? Here is the link to the relevant data:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Homicide rate in EU is 1.7, US is 5.8 or 4.3 (Firearms only).

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