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Comment by syops | Hacker News Reader

I should state that I had in mind police interactions similar to traffic stops. Boldly proclaiming you don't consent to a search or you refuse to answer questions can lead to a tough time for you. I think in general one should strive for de-escalation, and being overly compliant in the above type interaction. Once you are arrested then definitely assert your rights. It's unfortunate that police powers are such that we can't assert out rights without fear of retribution.

I strongly disagree with your last sentence. I believe cops will take advantage of those who can't afford lawyers as long as there are no real consequences to them.

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Oh, yeah, even with traffic stops, you're totally right. Don't "boldly proclaim" anything. Be humble, even as you keep this in mind.

I've been asked at traffic stops at least 3x, by police:

> You don't have any drugs in here, right? Don't mind if I take a look?

What do you say?

> Nope, no drugs!

Great, you've consented to a search.

> No, officer, I don't consent to a search of my vehicle.

They might still search, but now their search is without probable cause _and_ your consent, which means even if they _do_ find drugs in your car, your lawyer will be able to spring you easily.

Cops do take advantage of those who cannot afford lawyers, but a way you can set yourself up for success is guide the interaction in such a way that a lawyer would have no problem proving the cops violated their own guidelines.

A calm tone won't necessarily make the cop calm, but a bold/agressive tone will almost certainly make the cop respond in kind. When I decline a request from a cop, I make sure to do it with a sugared tongue. The cop isn't entitled to the 'sorry' in "No, sorry", but that little indignity might make the difference so I'm willing to suffer it.

I don't know if it's a good idea in general, but I've gotten good results from even more flowery language -- "I'm sure we'd be great friends in other circumstances, but while you're on duty I need a lawyer present for any further discussions." Anecdotally, not taking the effort to reaffirm that it's nothing against them personally tends to lead to a lot of pushback.

I've never tried going that far, but once a cop looked offended when I said he couldn't search my car, like I had impugned his honor, so I volunteered the explaination 'It's nothing personal, just a matter of principle." That seemed to satisfy him.

> They might still search, but now their search is without probable cause _and_ your consent, which means even if they _do_ find drugs in your car, your lawyer will be able to spring you easily.

There's an old saying: "you may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."

I'd just like to point out that the ability to recover quickly and easily after being wrongfully arrested is a privilege. If you are e.g. driving to a job that you can't afford to lose, it may be that avoiding a night in jail for a wrongful arrest is more important than your eventual principled triumph over the system.

Especially given that neither is guaranteed. Maybe the cop decides you're not worth the trouble and lets you go. Maybe they plant drugs and lie that you did consent to a search, and a jury believes them. Maybe your overworked public defender advises you to just take a plea. There are no silver bullets here, and the most likely bad outcome is entirely situational.

They will just detain you and bring in a dog, who will "find" probable cause.

Sometimes there isn’t a dog available. Sometimes the police have to leave on a higher priority call. Sometimes the dog doesn’t alert. Sometimes your lawyer can get the dog alerting thrown out based on other factors.

What’s the risk of just letting them search? Sometimes you can be held for 90 days because the cops mistake donut frosting for meth.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/16/558147669...

Rights aren't really useful or meaningful if exercising them causes problems. What we should strive for is someone refusing to have their car searched without any problems.

Which is an avenue your future lawyer can explore in your attempts to contest the charges against you and/or whatever action you're trying to bring against their conduct.

If you just consent to a search, those avenues are basically closed. Can't contest if they had probable cause to search, if the dog was trained correctly, etc if you agree to the search.

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