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Sadly as much as I hate seeing essential communication links cut, though I don't have any data I am assuming a lot of people are going to buy in the public safety angle. It is not like the Indian state hasn't used that line of reasoning before for even bans lasting more than a year.

Reading through the linked article on the violence related to the same protests that happened few days back reminded me of some tweets I had seen. People running around brandishing swords(and other melee weapons) attacking cops, which felt way worse than what we saw in US Capitol insurrection. https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1354088807424028673

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Nope, complete propaganda by the Indian govt. I have family there so I can confirm. The Indian media is completely sold out to the govt and will only present highly selected and curated pictures. Social media is where they can't control the narrative. The Indian govt unleash sate sanctioned mobs on these protestors, desperate resort to break up the protest. Now they had to ensure that the truth stays under wraps. Hence, cut off internet.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I was talking about the protestors attacking cops of which there are a lot of videos on social media. The video I linked above shows them jumping from a fort to save themselves.

There is plenty of propaganda floating around from both sides. If you dislike muddy waters, I would recommend staying out of Indian politics. It is a clusterfuck.

To add to your top comment, these events - protestors attacking police personnel and protestors raiding Red Fort and raising their own flags - happened on republic day, which is like a mini 4th of July for India (we have two: 15th August, which is when India became independent and 26th January, which is when India adopted its constitution). On Republic Day, India observes the president furl India's national flag from the Red Fort, so seeing these events unfold, especially seeing a flag other than the Indian flag at Red Fort on Republic Day, were of very big symbolic value.

Own flags, which Indian Army encourages, allows, & make a new recruit to Swore upon when recruited. Same flag is the flag of that Regiment, saluted by Prime Ministrr on every Jan 26 parade on Punjab state's vehicle (jhaanki, kind of vehicle is converted & decorated with things showing culture,).

Same modi, whose Delhi Police tramples the Tiranga, whose party flies the Tiranga lower than party flag, whose mother party RSS has never flown that flag ever in their premises, events even in 52 years since 1947.

& Bumtw, Tiranga was never touched.

What are you talking about? Didn’t you see the national flag hoisting event in RSS headquarters live on the news like every year?

He's talking about the fact that the RSS did not raise the Indian flag till about 2002. And that their historical opposition to the flag is well documented.

No, I want to see RSS every year as much as a True Indian want to see Pakistan Independence Day parade. Never.

RSS did not hoist Tiranga till 2002. Don't you know or you conveniently ignore?

Wow, that seems to be correct. I wonder why they would do that. In my childhood I went to an RSS school and we used to hoist the national flag all the time. Strange.

The RSS does not want India, they want Bharat, they are for a Hindu nation. This isn't even a hidden fact, but in every basic dossier on India.

Where Hindu is a nationality/culture and not a religion. India is a name given by slavers. Bharat is a very very old concept.

That lovely linguistic sleight of hand means that people called a region bharat. By the criteria how come Sri Lanka is not included? Or how do you reconcile the 7 sisters being part of that? For that matter the word Europe exists - are you arguing that states should act like nations a la the EU?

I reconcile that by the fact that the same unifying culture is and has been present for centuries in the whole subcontinent.

How do you reconcile that beef eating is fine in Kerala Hindus and abhorrent/used to target minorities by North Indian Hindus?

You repeatedly posted flamewar comments in this thread. We've had to ask you before not to do this. We ban accounts that won't stop doing it. Please don't do it again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Even if those true doesn't permit anyone to trespass RedFort and do as per their will.

Yes, agreed, & thats why 100s of Sikhs are now in Jails around Red Fort, without any access to Lawyer or Phone Calls. But Modi Bhakats are tweeting all the way Missing Indira Mummy. They also want to burn Sikhs just like any power hungry party, be it 1984 like Congress, 2002 like Godhra.

Modi bhakts would be on the side of sikhs surely. Sikh community is the reason Hinduism survives in large parts of India. The people you are calling “sikhs” were throwing policemen off heights. Do they get to kill without impunity? What are you defending here exactly?

No, they are & always wished death upon non Hindus. & Carried it too. Godhra, 1984, & many others.

No need to add sikhs in Quotes, those are Sikhs. Many of them are in jails. Do you want to be the judge & executioner on the spot? Any mob who damages or hurts, should be controlled, & then tried. But in India, if that mob is Hindu, then it never happens.

This has been shown again and again by current administration and ruling party in India that power and ideology of pure Hindu state is more important than lives and livelihood.

On a grand display in 2002 incident in a province in India [1], please read the whole NYT article, before commenting on it.

Later on at display in Kashmir. Subsequently during national register and citizenship act protests where religious riots were used again to suppress a year of peaceful protests.

Than again during university protests in New Delhi. Here again students were attacked inside the university, police beat and shot university students. Still even one person from ruling party who participated in violence or a cop who shot is to be prosecuted. On the other hand most of those opposing are being charged with terrorist charges.

India to really progress out of poverty needs to first learn to respect its diversity and be united. Current administrations and ruling party’s policy has taken India on a downhill path of economic disaster, lower HDI, more poverty and more hunger. United Nations data and research don’t lie, India constantly slipped compared to its neighbours like Bangladesh on this index. So probably it will be better instead of hardline approach things change in India, otherwise it will be too late for a divided country to progress forward. It might on the other hand will move towards authoritarian dictatorship very quickly. India needs to come out of tyranny of majority and authoritarian mindset of current government for a change.

I hope this same story and violence does not repeat in Bengal, where already violence is being promoted to unseat local government which does not believe in Hindu supremacy like the central government.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/09/blood-and-soil...

India is objectively moving towards authoritarian dictatorship on many metrics:

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2020/11/28/narendra-modi-...

(And quickly)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5VsGdPHsz0

A nice documentary. Its a little long though. Fair warning, it needs a strong (metaphorical) stomach if one cares about these issues.

Are you saying there was no violence by protestors on the Republic day? Would appreciate some references for the same.

Newslaundry did a great piece on it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLgOg79F-Ug

sadly, comics are the best source of news on India. I can't believe how soon the new industry simply capitulated to the center. Its hilarious.

The protesters attached police. There are pictures, videos. You can't push it under carpet and say nothing happened.

Yes, but those are selective video shots. Many videos on tiktok & whatsapp show where Reporters are telling their cameraman, Dont Show that, when camera goes towards Police slashing the tyres, throwing the flag at ground, & attacking 1 protester by 4+ Cop goons.

Yeah, police will control a rioting mob anyway they can. Maybe don’t brandish swords, try to run over public and police and attack people in your peaceful protest?

The Godi media you are watching does not show the Delhi police trampling over Tiranga, slashing tires, shooting tear gas over a distance of less than 20 feet, blocking the route agreed upon.

So the police should make sure not to trample on tiranga while controlling a rioting mob?

Shooting tear gas is worse than shooting bullets?

Let’s not get into what was agreed upon. For that just look at the list of broken promises provided by the police and it’s crystal clear what these people wanted to achieve.

Pulling a tiranga from tractor, & rolling it, & then trampling it over while nothing else is going on, is I think bad. Police Brutality, as a scare tactic will always fire back on dictator's face.

Can you show me a video of slashing tires?

More information has come out linking the violent folks to the ruling party. The farmers have said it's not their people. Indeed the leader of the group that entered Red Fort is a known BJP. There's a video of him running away when accosted by the farmers. It's such a mess.

Damn man the level of misinformation you guys are feeding in is at the next level. So which is it, the people who where rioting were actual farmers, sikhs or from BJP? In the same thread you guys are listing out all possible combinations.

In India there are Farmer organizations, labour organizations etc of all parties. The current agitation is by farmer orgs belonging to opposition parties. This is just politics nothing else.

The trick of discrediting a popular protest by putting your own hooligans to do something abhorrent is as old as the woods. That is what happened.

It can also be a double bluff, doing it and if it backfires say it is the opposing party's hooligans.

When the media fails to do its job then the people have to do it for them. Of course there will be condtradictory information coming in because the media has completely failed to provide a source of credible information. I'm not throwing out misinformation, but merely pointing out information that the OP missed and is available in reputable sources. There is A LOT of video evidence that points to BJP stooges inciting violence. The guy who hoisted the flag on Red Fort, Deep Siddhu is a known BJP supporter. Times of India , Indian Express, The Wire have all reported on this. Heck even Aj Tak had video where the BJP stooges are throwing stones at the protestors while an entire police battalion stands behind them doing nothing.

Complete propaganda here. The oligarchs and nationalists are pushing down the minorities (Sikhs, and Muslims and poor). A t the end of the day those funding Jio and other Oligarchs (Hi Mark, Hi Bond), will end up catching blame with a black swan event goes down. Follow the money, VCs and Facebook fund up these same oligarchs that press and kill hundreds of millions.

This forum is a product of VCs and big tech. A huge portion of Silicon Valley wealth comes from enslaving and subjugating Asia.

This audience is probably the people who need to hear it most, but also the audience that it would upset the most.

When did hacker culture evolve from loving technology and rebelling against the establishment into placing profits above human lives? Is a nice tech salary all it takes to purchase one's humanity? What about the promise of VC billions?

The profit motive subjugates the poor, perpetuates genocide, and upholds slavery. Technology is not some humanist savior, it has been twisted to exploit the many and serve the few. Maybe one day our advanced technologies will work to serve and uplift the people rather than suppress them.

Does a US company contracting with say a Chinese company to produce its products help or hurt Chinese workers? I think it would help Chinese workers by increasing employment in China and generally improving the Chinese economy.

Exporting environmental waste, abusive workplace exploitation, unsafe practices and lack of self-reliance, are the counter arguments. We need a healthy mix of both, not the extremes.

My thought is that the more wealthy a country becomes, the more it can push back on environmental waste, and the more workplace regulations its workers can demand.

"The Indian media is completely sold out to the govt and will only present highly selected and curated pictures."

Sounds familiar...

It may sound similar to how china or russia control media, or how trump supporters think the liberal media is controlled.

There have been multiple reports of cops suffering injuries.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/86-cops-injured-4-cases-file...

> Nope, complete propaganda by the Indian govt.

So you are claiming that the video in the comment above is fake? That the sword was photoshopped in as part of a misinformation exercise? If you are claiming this, then it sounds something straight out of an Indian QAnon conspiracy theory.

> I have family there so I can confirm.

I happen to live there myself. So I can confirm that these sword wielding protesters were attacking policemen armed with sticks (Indian policemen are not armed with lethal weapons). I saw this happening from my own window with my own eyes.

Language is Hindi.main stream media no showing this. This link shows how police let govt sponsored rioters attack sitting protesters https://twitter.com/antiitcelltask1/status/13551173784728412... This link shows before roits, govt person who is part of mob shaking hand with police before stone pelting at farmers protesting https://twitter.com/gs_atwal/status/1355103467124174849?s=21 Now they intrude inside the site where protesters are camping provoking protesters by destruction https://twitter.com/immak02/status/1355124797202595841?s=21 Police helping rioters and then pulling a farmer who come out to defend with sword And beating along with govt sponsored rioters

https://twitter.com/rajbirk08499553/status/13554995166784798...

https://twitter.com/_dsbofficial/status/1355499255985790983?...

https://twitter.com/specialkbrook/status/1355446339946106881...

Police braking cctv to erase evidence https://twitter.com/gsmanes/status/1355171604896993287?s=21

https://www.altnews.in/old-video-shows-police-breaking-cctv-...

Police breaking cctv is an old footage as per a reputed left wing news watcher.

It’s sad since the majority of the protest was peaceful. There’s even the usual sorry state where reporters actively told camera men to stop rolling when they accidentally captured police caning protestors.

The capitol insurrection angle is also a new line being tested in the media for consumption.

How many cellphone towers from JIO have the protesters destroyed till now? It was over 1500 last I checked, but that was like end of December.

Destroying private property based on arbit FUD propaganda. Oh so peaceful.

Ah yes, when we can't demonize them as minorities, or reflect on the largely peaceful protest, we return to "who will think of the ~~busses~~ I mean telecom towers!"

The ones owned by a company that has a lot to gain from these remarkable laws! I mean, property damage is a stones throw too far, given that the government has listened and responded, and created laws which don't remove access to courts for anyone with a dispute.

But yes, any violence to property is truly abhorrent. Incidentally, I am pro agri reform. I would never trust this government to execute anything though. Seriously, a bill which removes your right to legal recourse? Your only succor a tribunal run by the ministry?

Even then, they are not trying to redo the bills, they simply want to push it off to a later date.

To be honest I do hope everything they want passes, and that everyone who voted for them stays behind in the glorious country. I suspect there is no other way that the mechanistic, command and control mindset prevalent throughout the country will removed.

So sometimes the courts are corrupt and dancing to the tune of the industrialist or it’s the beacon of justice, when convenient? Sometimes in the same argument? I do agree though that clause was asinine.

Even if reliance gets to benefit, is the farmer being harmed for it? Poor farmer has a lot to gain from this bill. They get supply of funds right from by muting seeds and fertilisers to having assured income. Just paint the “industrialist” as the monster and destroy away?

What exactly are the demands of this protest? They seem to have changed a lot from the start. What about protesting when something actually has gone wrong and you can actually point to a loss?

> Even if reliance gets to benefit, is the farmer being harmed for it? Poor farmer has a lot to gain from this bill. They get supply of funds right from by muting seeds and fertilisers to having assured income. Just paint the “industrialist” as the monster and destroy away?

Do you miss out on the huge number of HN discussions talking about the damaging effects of monopolization by BigTech players? Now imagine if you're a farmer who can only sell to 1 of 2 conglomerates, both led by big shot industrialists with ties to the govt (which will also run the arbitration tribunal). So much "free market" right?

So you sell in the old mandi system? Which had the monopoly until now.

How does a "system" get a monopoly? Genuinely asking as I didn't understand your point. A mandi, from what I understand is a large market of traders.

https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/MdPnXrH2B3H5lhD3O5I3bK/How-...

Thanks. Much appreciated.

The mandi system is a monopoly in the markets space, where buyers and sellers have only one place to do commerce. Ambani, Tata and Adani would be a monopoly in the buyers space. Big difference.

Mandi is a designated physical space, market, where any buyer & seller can transact; & government mandi officials will record & observe all transactions for data logging, & to keep the issues away. Nobody has monopoly, anybody can come & buy. Think of it as a kind of transaction between a craigslist buyer & seller at local police station.

If buyer & seller trust each other, like between my family & farmers in out village, we used to buy the produce directly from their home.

You might be misunderstanding the US capitol outrage. It wasn't that people brandished weapons or killed each other - that's bad, and everyone wants it to stop, but it does sometimes happen.

The problem was that the Capitol was invaded while the Senate was in session, which made a bunch of lawmakers feel personally threatened. And when rich politically-connected people fear for their own safety, you'd better watch out.

Anyways, protests attack cops and cops attack protests in the US...oh, every few months? Such is life.

they are going crazy. farmers run over two innocent woman

tryied to run over a people https://twitter.com/MrsGandhi/status/1332679401738145792

https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1353981108451336193

attacking with sword https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1354299202285625349

throwing off the wall https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1354091326971633669

Even if this were actually true at larger scale (than at most a few isolated cases played up), the comparison of the righteous anger of starving farmers with that of propaganda-fed Americans is not really helpful.

These are not starving farmers. Punjab has the richest farmers, I feel you are just associating the word poor, starving with farmers.

Any sources? Punjab has one of the highest suicide rate in farmers. 3300 in last 10 years [1].

[1] https://borgenproject.org/farmer-suicide-in-india/

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