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melling

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That is simply not true. It greatly reduces risk, but people still get sick, and still go to the hospital.

Spreading this sort of false info helps no one.

I think the parent comment was intended to be sarcastic.

The article makes the claim. I simply repeated the claim as a tl;dr. I suppose I should have made that clear.

> trials

There is a key word that you are missing. In the trials. Not the full release.

The citation is in the article itself. Please look at the table which shows the number of people in each vaccine trial, and the number who were hospitalized/died.

To save you the trouble, the numbers are "0" of those outcomes out of the 15k, 18.6k, 13k, 5.8k and 22k people in the trials (or around 0 out of 74,200 people total).

Yes, the post I was replying to said that "no one who has taken any of the vaccines has been hospitalized or died from Coronavirus" full stop.

That is what I am objecting to.

That contradicts the article:

Since the beginning of the trials, all trials, there has not been a single death or hospitalization among people vaccinated. Not one. Zero. Not for Moderna, not for Pfizer/BioNTech, not for Oxford/AstraZeneca, not for Sputnik, not for J&J, not for Novavax.

Do you have a cite?

There were 9 deaths in France already among the people vaccinated. Saying it's zero is a pure lie. Whether it was caused by the vaccine, its consequences, or something else is unclear.

https://www.ladepeche.fr/2021/01/22/covid-19-neuf-personnes-...

23 in Norway as well in one elderly home. https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149

I am pretty sure they were not all in one elderly home. In a brief look at the BMJ paper I did not see that claim, and besides I think such a dramatic incident would have made a much bigger splash in the news.

In the US, we're administering the mRNA vaccines exclusively (J&J is just now rolling out) and we're prioritizing nursing homes. We've administered 78 million doses. Why aren't we seeing similar events here? Supposedly, the most trustworthy stat we have is deaths. Deaths in assisted living homes are plummeting.

Out of curiosity, do you also believe the official number of Chinese cases, which is around 89,000?

Or to answer your question directly, I believe the media isn't reporting them. Just like they don't want to report Cuomo, along with governors in multiple states, knowingly stuffed nursing homes with covid cases. It all comes out eventually, but right now is the "fog of war" so to speak. We won't hear about the deaths caused by the shot until later.

The media isn't reporting them? You can get the stats directly from the states, all of which are vaccinating nursing homes aggressively. Are the leaders of these states all conspiring?

>You can get the stats directly from the states

You can also get stats directly from the CDC. Like these stats on the flu,

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

202 cases since September, for a disease that averages tens of thousands of deaths annually.

>Are the leaders of these states all conspiring?

IDK, where did the flu deaths go? Occam's razor.

The only reasonable and fair interpretation of TFA's statement is there have been no deaths from covid in the vaccinated population. It's obviously not proof against death, and it might even have a tiny inherent risk itself.

Do you have contradictory information about covid hospitalizations/deaths in the vaccinated population?

Well, see this study from the UK.

"Preliminary results from a study in Scotland found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine reduced hospital admissions by up to 85% four weeks after the first dose, while the Oxford-AstraZeneca shot cut admissions by up to 94%."

85% and 94% are not 100%. QED.

Also, read carefully the quote. It is talking about the (few thousand) people enrolled in the non-placebo arm of the trials, not everyone receiving the vaccine. The claim made in the GP was vastly broader and unsupported.

That's not referencing hospitalizations among those that have received the vaccine. That's talking about a total reduction in hospital admissions among the general population, many of which had yet to receive a vaccination.

Yes it is?

It’s specifically citing a change inhospitikization rate based on the vaccine received.

FIRST DOSE! Of a two dose regimen. Note, no allowance for the 14 days to achieve even a full response to the first dose.

That sentence is an outright lie.

Tim Zook died after taking it. Sonia Acevedo died after taking it. Sara Beltran Ponce had a miscarriage after taking it. [1,2]

[1] https://twitter.com/SaraBelPonMD/status/1354890858789744641

[2] https://archive.is/cGNNK

In the context of the article, the implication of that sentence was "there has not been a single death or hospitalization [from covid]". I thought that would also be clear from the context of this thread, but maybe not.

Out of curiosity I googled those names.

Tim Zook: https://www.fox5ny.com/news/vaccine-ruled-out-as-cause-of-de... (the slug tells it all)

Sonia Acevedo: https://in.news.yahoo.com/sonia-acevedo-portuguese-health-wo... (basically, nothing conclusive yet)

We're talking about tens of millions (soon billions) of doses. I'm sure there will be some bad reactions, but there's definitely going to be a lot of simple coincidences too. I'm sure I don't need to repost the XKCD on correlation/causation here.

Tim and Sonia are not part of the trials being talked about

>Since the beginning of the trials, all trials, there has not been a single death or hospitalization among people vaccinated.

The statement clearly says, since the date when trials began, there have been no deaths among all people who received the shot. This is obviously an untrue statement and misinformation.

I'll just say that is a very strange reading of the sentence. There's really no where to go with this exchange if we can't even agree on that.

None of which are qualifies given in the GP

I think the best way to measure risk is having lots of information and data to base our decisions on. Unfortunately, this seems to be hard to find regarding vaccines in general, and worse for covid based vaccines.

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