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Comment by caconym_ | Hacker News Reader

My next GPU is going to be one that a) supports the features I want, and b) that I can actually go out and buy without putting hundreds or thousands of dollars into some economic parasite’s pocket. It’s not just “hard” to buy high-end GPUs right now—it’s impossible unless you make a lifestyle out of chasing them down.

If this has any effect on anybody who isn’t a crypto miner, it’s going to be to open up possibilities and/or save them money. I have trouble finding fault with that, and we’re surrounded by far more egregious erosions of our “right” to buy and use general-purpose computers.

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They are not economic parasites. They are the physical manifestation of the Invisible Hand. These are people doing God's work making an efficient market. If you don't want arbitrageurs to capture that value, maybe NVidia should start pricing their products correctly so that they capture the value. This isn't rocket science.

> If this has any effect on anybody who isn’t a crypto miner, it’s going to be to open up possibilities and/or save them money. I have trouble finding fault with that, and we’re surrounded by far more egregious erosions of our “right” to buy and use general-purpose computers.

This is a wildly short-sighted take.

First they came for mobile users, and I did not speak out-- Because I like Daddy Cook telling me what math I can do.

Then they came for the cryptocurrency miners, and I did not speak out-- Because I deserve a subsidy for my video gaming habit.

Then they came for unlicensed cryptographers, and I did not speak out-- Because I have nothing to hide and if this has an effect on anybody besides them it's just going to be to make their skills more valuable.

Then they came for the debuggers-- But I still didn't speak out, because we're already surrounded by egregious erosions of our right to buy and use general-purpose computers, so what's the point, amirite?

> They are not economic parasites. They are the physical manifestation of the Invisible Hand.

Why do you (apparently) imagine these things are mutually exclusive?

> maybe NVidia should start pricing their products correctly so that they capture the value

I do happen to agree with this in principle, up to a point, and I've said as much in the past. It's easier said than done, though, especially when the scarcity is expected to be temporary and there are OEMs and retailers between you and the buyer.

Ultimately, Nvidia may feel that it makes more sense to (attempt to) cater to the steady, predictable consumer market for their products, rather than alienating those buyers in favor of crypto miners during a period when they aren't able to satisfy both. On the face of it, not having intimate insider knowledge of their business, I can't say I think it's a bad judgment call.

> This is a wildly short-sighted take.

You obviously think you're very smart and everyone around you is not nearly as smart, but you're just going to have to live with the fact that I and many others disagree with you here. And you've shown with everything after this line that continuing to discuss this tricky (and very interesting) moral question with you would be a total waste of time, so I'm not going to bother.

(But I guess there isn't much point in you trying, either, because ... well, you know.)

> Why do you (apparently) imagine these things are mutually exclusive?

An economic parasite extracts rent. Arbitrageurs add value by reducing spreads, adding liquidity, and improving allocative efficiency.

> Ultimately, Nvidia may feel that it makes more sense to (attempt to) cater to the steady, predictable consumer market for their products, rather than alienating those buyers in favor of crypto miners during a period when they aren't able to satisfy both. On the face of it, not having intimate insider knowledge of their business, I can't say I think it's a bad judgment call.

That's fine; it's their prerogative. But people should understand that it's NVidia's policies, not crypto miners, that are responsible for supply shortages in traditional retail channels and making arbitrageurs rich. The blame is entirely misplaced.

> You obviously think you're very smart and everyone around you is not nearly as smart, but you're just going to have to live with the fact that I and many others disagree with you here. And you've shown with everything after this line that continuing to discuss this tricky (and very interesting) moral question with you would be a total waste of time, so I'm not going to bother.

You're wrong about that, but you're right that I'm going to have to live with the fact that people disagree with me. Same thing goes for you.

I think it's a real stretch to call this a moral issue. But you're right that this conversation is unlikely to have a productive end. Way too many jimmies have been rustled.

> I think it's a real stretch to call this a moral issue.

After your little tribute to Niemöller there, I'm surprised you'd claim otherwise—but maybe you just find it a useful rhetorical device to use as a bludgeon in your quest for reduced spreads, added liquidity, and improved allocative efficiency. I suppose it wouldn't be the first time somebody's invoked the specter of Hitler and the Nazis in an argument with little or no regard for the awful human weight of the events they're alluding to.

Sorry, I wasn't clear about what I was referring to: GPU resales are not a moral issue. Restrictions on computation very much are.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were calling a moral issue. If you were referring to the restrictions on computation, then I agree.

> Then they came for the cryptocurrency miners, and I did not speak out-- Because I deserve a subsidy for my video gaming habit.

Are you suggesting that anyone who buys something and then doesn't use it to generate the maximum profit possible for themselves is being subsidized by someone else?

That doesn't even remotely make sense.

What's your stake in cryptocurrency?

Not at all. Simply: If the market value of an item is $2500, and I demand the ability to buy it at $750, I am demanding that someone, somewhere subsidizes my purchase.

The keyword that you left out is "now". In one year (hopefully), supply will match demand and you'll be able to purchase it at MSRP. At that point, you're subsidizing your own purchase by applying patience.

They are indeed economic parasites. Much like landlords, they are not doing any useful work, not contributing to society in any way, but sitting on their ass expecting to collect a free paycheck while other people work.

Miners are parasites.

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