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Comment by giantg2 | Hacker News Reader

I wouldn't consider myself poor or having grown up poor. I identify with many of the points on this list. I make less than many of my coworkers and my career has stagnated. I sometimes wonder if it has to do with this cultural gap. It seems like it's usually the people with an expensive image that are the ones who get promoted. Meanwhile I'm doing basically anything to save money and trying to leave work on time so I can watch the kid while my wife goes to work in the evening.

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I won't say there's no bias (I'm sure it exists everywhere), but I think it's not an "expensive image" that gets you promoted as much as confidence.

Many people who grew up rich have a natural confidence to them (because they are protected if they lose their job, have been told they'll be someone important one day, given lots of help in life), and that helps a lot in giving a vibe that you'll succeed.

The great thing is that the confidence can be gained even if you didn't grow up in the same circumstances, it just takes more work.

I've gone the other direction. The company has screwed me over enough that I know life is shitty and all the stuff teachers and parents tell you growing up is a lie. The confidence didn't help me anyways (due to politics) as I'm 9 years in and only a midlevel dev, even though I've worked in roles above my current one (senior dev, tech lead, ASC). Most of the people in the office talk about fancy expensive things. If you don't participate in that lifestyle, there's little connection.

Okay, so really the question is, why are you still at that company and not looking around to switch to a better one?

I have a family to support and have no options (the tech was FileNet and later Neoxam, and the wife refuses to relocate).

Hey, sorry to hear about your predicament.

A lot of companies hire remotely these days, or are totally remote (Gitlab comes to mind).

Two things I would recommend if you are open to advice:

1. Consider the possibility that you have some skills to grow to achieve more senior levels. Confidence helps, but it's not enough on it's own.

2. Interview at other companies that don't require you to relocate to see what you're worth - switching jobs is (sadly) one of the easiest ways to get promoted or a pay raise.

Good luck!

1. I'm not posting for senior roles. I know I have more to learn about the new technologies since I'm switching stacks. It's not just confidence that makes me think I was performing at that level. The olny reason I wasn't officially given the title is because of politics and poor leadership by my superiors. I had people from other teams calling me a tech lead, a commendation letter from another team due to my involvement in an enterprise wide upgrade, my supervisor said she wanted me to get the highest performance rating but couldn't make it happen (political reasons), and everyone on the team treated me like the tech lead and even called me that. For the senior developer year, it was pretty similar but since we had an official tech lead hired on I let him handle half the elevations and half the interaction with other teams. My manager even said when he gets a new task that's highly technical and difficult, he gives it me or the tech lead. I met some people from outside my team offsite by chance. We were talking about work stuff pretty regularly. They where surprised when I said I was only a midlevel dev. They thought I was a senior dev or tech lead based on the things I was saying and doing. I had the same thing happen on the next team I went to where some techleads in the department were surprised that I was only a midlevel. Also I was the ASC for that application and recieved excellent reviews from everyone about that role. That role is supposed to be for people who are a senior dev or higher. Unfortunately there were political issues in that group too.

So after two years of working like this, my supervisor (different one) tells me that I could be promoted but I have to work extra time everyday. Now I'm fine putting in some extra hours to make a date or run an elevation. I'm not just going to work extra hours above company policy as a normal thing. Why would I take a 13% increase in hours for a 7% raise? That's taking a rate cut for a position with more (official) responsibilities.

2. I'm probably not worth anything since I have to learn the new stacks. They have me in AWS tech, which is ok. I got certified, but that doesn't mean much since I dont get a lot of chances to use it. I get some experience in Java and Python ECS and Lambdas. Some Dynamo, Cloudwatch, SNS, SQS, etc. A lot of this is stuff like synthetic alerts or increasing test coverage, which sucks. But then they also throw me on no/low code stuff like Splunk and Tableau, which also sucks. I'm never going to become an expert if the type of work is constantly changing and there are big gaps between when I last used that skill and when I'm asked to do it again.

IMHO, once you have child(ren) , the value of a senior role is questionable, especially since as you point out , more hours are expected which makes it not a real raise (besides "stealing" from quality time with your kid(s) ). Senior roles to me can be a poison chalice, more stress. IMHO when one feels a failure for not being a senior, one might need to emotionally detach, and disconnect self-worth from their job title. To those who say they can't get by on a mid-level salary, well , how does much of the rest of the workforce without tech salaries do it then? One other thought - internal promotions are often a lost cause anyway, (e:g reliant on playing politics). If you're dead set on becoming a senior, job-hopping often the best way. Good luck! :)

That's pretty much how I see it. Except the company's policies do not state any change to the required hours. I feel this is a deceptive employer practice (one of several I've seen).

The bigger issue is that I can't see myself continuing to work here until I'm able to "retire". The work is shit. I've heard many managers will look to fire people or drive them out if they are moving up. I need the job to support my family, so that causes a lot of stress. If I were single, I would have quit years ago... or just stopped trying until they fire me.

And I just had my midyear review. It was not good. Apparently I'm slow and need to be more proactive/engaged.

Sorry to hear that. Well.. I think workplaces with such mid-year reviews are often not good places to be. Such performance management systems can make individuals completely focused on their own performance grades instead of working together and helping each other. As result , happiness of everyone suffers, and everyone's performance, so it is IMHO not a sensible way to run a business. Some people game the system, some hurt other team members to make themself look better. Feels like a complete waste of time to me and makes for stress. As for being criticised for being too slow, well, maybe what should count is end result not sheer speed. But many businesses don't seem to understand that. Or you may genuinely be slow but that could be stress, its hard when you got young kids, in a better environment you could be more productive. The formula which has worked for me and I share all the time on HN is, learn skills that have strong long-term value e:g linux, command-line, python, ignore fads e:g js libraries, always go for open source if possible, not some vendor that could get bought out or change their strategy. Bottom line is , a happy life should be achievable in tech, we can take not necessarily the best-paying job, not necessarily the most kudos / status, but still have a decent satisfying job that pays enough to raise a family. I have achieved that, partly down to some "vigorous frugality" at times. ;) It's do-able but you have to research employers, talk to people who work different places, find out what its like, sometimes (non-fake) glassdoor reviews can be revealing too. And be prepared to leave jobs and take the plunge. It can be scary to take a risk when you've got kids. But sometimes has to be done. All the best :)

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