Comment by johncoltrane | Hacker News Reader

Comment by johncoltrane | Hacker News Reader

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Retired Parisian graffiti writer, here.

The parent article does a good job at explaining the whys and hows.

For the stations that where actually open at some point, it was mainly a matter of optimization: new hubs being built, profitability, etc. The end of WWII has been the turning point for most them.

Porte des Lilas was a prototype station repurposed for shooting movies in a controlled environment.

Haxo was part of a failed project to connect two lines. It was never officially opened so we, locals, don't really consider it as a station.

The buff between Place d'Italie and Corvisart has never been a station. It's more of a curiosity than anything.

Not mentioned in the article are the former end-station of line 5 at Gare du Nord, now a training ground for metro drivers, Arsenal on line 5, Porte Maillot on line 1, and Molitor, which was never even connected to the surface.

I am not sure how popular the ghost stations of the métro, the prohibited sections of the catacombs, and the "petite ceinture" are with today's teens but they made Paris a gigantic interconnected playground back in the 80s/90s.

I was always curious: the Sprague/s were left virgin for so many years. Was it because they hadn't been discovered by writers, or because they were considered untouchable for reasons of historical importance. Obviously the scene has all types, and both scenarios seem as unlikely as each other.. can you elaborate ?

Edit: "Sprague" or Sprague Thompson is rolling stock dating back to 1908. There are one or two hidden very well in the system, with one still in mint, serviceable condition.

There are still quite a few Sprague cars preserved and maintained by various entities, some of them are even inserted in the traffic for special occasions like "Les journées du Patrimoine" during which the RATP ans other organisations show off a lot of very interesting and usually hidden stuff.

That particular train of Spragues, the one that is covered with paint, has been stored in many places over the years, without a clear intent as to its future, like the BOA prototype. The first time I saw it was in the Vaugirard yard, which wasn't exactly a walk-in, so that made it a hard target compared to the regular trains. When they moved it in the connexion between lines 7 and 10 it became a much easier target and a go-to place for just about everyone.

I'm afraid the RATP doesn't care much about that specific train.

As for types, yes, we have all of them. Very few of us care about historical importance but it might actually be more of an attractor than a detractor for those who do.

I was referring specifically to the Sprague that was used in the Journée de la Patrimoine (which was sadly banned post 2010 I believe). It was well hidden, but then got trashed a few times with 'low effort' painters (throwing of paint over it, or quick chrome throwups as opposed to decent panels)

Couldn't understand if this specific one was "spared" for so long because it was well hidden, or because most painters considered it "too nice" to paint (or pointless, as it was rarely in service..)

The other ones (Monceau, etc) were obviously well and truly rinsed.

There's a few nice examples of preserved rolling stock in the RATP's "secret warehouse", but they only kept the head and trashed the wagons.

Vaugirard was definitely a nice yard, hard until we found a nicely hidden trapdoor-in-a-wall behind a 03..

That specific one was spared because it was well hidden, as soon as it became an easier target it had to be painted. Spragues, ghost stations, historical monuments, natural landmarks, Russian space shuttles… nothing is "too nice".

Vaugirard was more of a "monte-en-l'air" business for some of us ;-).

Oh man, the piece on the Buran is simply horrible. We managed to slip in just before COVID lockdown, somewhat lucky to have seen it before it got rinsed..

And sure, les ateliers seemed to be affairs of bras-honneur ..

> I'm afraid the RATP doesn't care much about that specific train.

This is backwards: it's the graffiti vandals that don't care.

The RATP really doesn't care. If they did, they wouldn't leave it to rot for years in non-secured locations known to attract vandals.

Yes for London the WW2 period sure did change the landscape in many ways and I recall being supprised that it wasn't until 2015 that London's population had finally caught up with level it had in 1939. That alone really did highlight how some things can be impacting far wider than we appreciate.

Retired train writer from berlin here, I’d love to hear more stories from you…

Likewise from you.. our first jaunt in the Berlin metro led us to a train laid up near the Opera junction with cops and dogs waiting inside for us to paint, and were thoroughly confused when we didn't..

We usually did our stints at the western side yards, S-Bahn as well. Yorkstrasse, Schöneberg, and all over the city in the end. So many stories of meeting strange people when painting, most of them friendly and not "anti-grafitti", more the other way around, some really helpful people letting you into their homes after being chased by the cops once again. I know of some impressive homeless shelters in old tunnels, not only homeless people went there, but musicans and skateboarders too. The cops never got us, they were always lagging in shape and motivation. One night we stumbled into a yard which was already bombed by the 1UP guys at that time, we ended up doing end to ends with them and doing throwups til 10am. The energy and dedication in those moments i've never found again. Still, i don't really miss laying in some wet gravel for hours full of paranoia and fear of getting caught and beat up. Sadly even finding an archive of photos documenting all this is not really possible, there were too many people involved being too chaotic in the end. A great part is lost and lives only in our memories.

Our stories are probably very similar ;-).

You know… scouting, trespassing, chasing something or someone, being chased, the sounds, the smells, the "tick, tick, tick" dogs make while stamping on floor of a metro car, etc. There are specifics, of course, but the baseline is the same everywhere I have been.

Every metro has its own smell, I assume from the brake dust.

Likewise the quiet moments between action when you're tucked into side tunnels, feeling the breeze and listening to distant trains rumbling by..

Why would you chase someone, as a train painter?

Turf fights?

Yep, chase the toys away from crossing the latest Poet62 piece because they don't know better. There were real feuds between writer gangs, serious stuff til blood was shed and noses bled. Even worse sometimes. Some unexperienced kids were killed by just imitating the train-surfers, without any prep or such. I saw a guy falling four stories from a rooftop down into some bushes, i thought he died. He lived with some broken rips and a hard rash from the safety rope he had handled wrong. I should write this all down in some ordered manner some day...

Some groups were a bit too territorial, yes, but that wasn't generally the case. You would chase other writers to steal their supply, or because they would have painted over your own stuff or were guilty of some other kind of disrespect. You would chase non-writers, like track workers or passengers to have time to finish your piece or take pictures in the yard. Etc.

Someone else in the thread mentioned throwing rocks, it was actually a shared hobby and a universal one at that.

I remember exploring the petit ceinture, and from there the catacomb. It was in the late 2000 in Paris.

The catacomb came as a surprise, I knew it was there. I was not expecting to find a entrance to it randomly.

( you might know the place, where the ceinture collide with a easy catacombe entrance under a tunnel, in the XIIIeme )

I had some much fun finding old map. Mapping it myself … then realizing that a LOT of people where going there as well.

As a ex member of the rave / free party movement it’s was really close in spirit.

Yes, I think I know the place. I had a fun adventure there, once, that taught me the importance of checking the batteries _before_ crawling in.

There was another one in the XVeme that I used to visit bi-monthly.

I wasn't much of a "cataphile" myself, but spending some times down there was a very common occupation in the 80s/90s. You could meet all kinds of people, down there.

> petite ceinture

As of last year, it was straight-forward to transition between the official park and the rest of the line on the north side of the park. Might need a shovel at the south side, but then you're quickly on active RATP property, with better access points across a few crossovers. Also a formalized access point somewhere near Montreuil where some old furniture was placed in just the right spot from street level.

Good place for berries and figs at the right time.

Thank you.

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