Comment by NikolaNovak | Hacker News Reader

Comment by NikolaNovak | Hacker News Reader

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I mean, I'm a strong introvert (defined here as somebody who likes people but is drained by socialization). Any given day I'd prefer working at home than from office; will prefer lunch at computer than cafeteria; dinner with friends or "me time" over team-building exercise; being at home with family than in office with co-workers. I'm friendly with my co-workers but we're not out-of-office friends -- I have my own circle of friends and family and interests.

But working from home, only home, for 16 months now? At macro level, it drained me of motivation after a few months - and it took a lot of self-examination to realize I'm no longer at my peak and why, because the change was slow and subtle. I lose this internal intuitive feeling of what we're doing and more importantly, why it matters. Everything is just words on the screen; success or failure, it's just an email or slack. There's no energy and pride to soak in when we wrap up a project. And most of all, I recognize I'm highly motivated by successful peers I respect; and I just don't get to experience that the same way. I see the good results/work of my peers, but I don't get to "see them be successful / good at their job", which is subtly but critically different thing, more of a continuous and passive experience - what you call "being surrounded by smart people doing interesting work" really rings true.

So while any given morning I'd rather stay at home, I recognize that in long term, I'm suffering from only staying home.

I cannot IMAGINE what an extrovert is feeling these days :-/.

(Oh and yes, I love them to death but there IS such a thing as "too much contiguous time spent with my kids", for me at least it turns out... but office is not necessarily the solution for that:)

I agree with you 100%, but want to highlight that this pandemic, and remote work, are entirely different things.

How often do we need people in the office? Some places are looking at hybrid schedules, anywhere from 1-4 days each week in the office, and 4-1 days at home.

Remote offices are rarely fully remote anyway; there's usually stuff like fly in for a week every quarter, or go to a conference or offsite together.

Absolutely, never connecting in person is going to lead to work feeling very separate, and a source of motivation we're used to will be missing. Whether that's a needed or even healthy source of motivation (do I benefit having a personal connection to people at work?) is complicated, but I don't think outside of a pandemic that it's actually -missing-. It just varies how much you'll get.

I agree; I should've added I've experienced most modes of work over my career - fully office (rare), some ratio of hybrid (most of my career, e.g. one week home one week traveling to client site), and even spells of up to a year doing remote-only work.

As I mentioned in another follow-up, it's those who prefer either full-time-office or full-time-remote, that I am least alike. Clearly, there are people who hate working from home at all, ever; and those who don't want to spend any time in the office, ever.

I wish people would remember this more often. The last year and a half or so has not been typical remote work. Typical remote work does not come with shelter-in-place orders; forced closing of many social spaces like restaurants, bars, and parks; mandatory masking and social distancing when in public; and the closure of schools and child care services.

The thing that amazes me is that even despite all the difficulties that cropped up due to forcing people into remote work (for jobs where that's been possible) during a global pandemic, people have actually done surprisingly well work-wise, considering all the challenges. Just imagine how fantastic it can be now that social-oriented activities are opening back up, most people are vaccinated, most areas are relaxing their masking and distancing rules, and schools and child care are opening again. And companies are finally having the time to breathe and figure out what flex office/remote work really will be like in practice, and will start allowing employees to travel for business again.

If we keep pushing for all of this, and help our employers see the value, we can craft a balance that works for each and every one of us.

A lot of the calls for returning to office work boil down to people wanting to be in an environment where there's this "hum" of Serious Business™ being done--the "buzz" of people actively present and Doing Interesting Things. It's not the work itself, but excitement at the performance of work going on around them. Lots of work-from-office folks seem to get a charge out of this excitement.

Maybe (and I'm half serious) companies should hire actors to simply walk around the office, quietly talk about things, draw things on whiteboards, maybe carry papers to and from the printer, etc. and in general provide that "hum" and "buzz" that people crave. That way, people who want the Office Experience™ can get it, and people who'd rather WFH can have things their way too.

I see what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree in general; but it's not, I think, my desire; as I said, on a daily basis, I don't love the "hum & buzz" - I have headphones in my cubicle like many of us here at HN do.

Could an actor become somebody I respect, and effectively portray a worker I know, understand and respect, having a breakthrough or trying something a few times or brainstorming or teaching spontaneously? Dunno. Would they be cheaper than just get somebody to do that AND actual work, I don't think so :D. And in some ways a lot of these things "could" theoretically be done over webex/zoom/teams/whatever. I don't have the answers - only the personal experience that after 16 months alone in my (phenomenal, fun, ergonomic) home office, there's definitely something dulled in my work life/satisfaction/performance, and I've tried to articulate it.

What it comes down to - I'm personally surprised at both extremes: at those who ONLY want to work from office, and those who ONLY want to work from home. Both, for me, would be imperfect compromises in which I'd lose something.

20% of the people do all the work. So let us stay home so I don’t have to wear noise cancelling headphones all day. Let the other 80% “perform” their duties.

I think it strongly depends how narrowly we define "work"

- I will agree that there is significant productivity variation between team members

- On my team, sure, ~20% of people are developers and doing Development work

- But testers, business analysis, system admins, release managers, etc are all still necessary and valuable. It is common but inexcusable hubris or unawareness of business goals and other team's contributions, to think they don't have necessary and productive roles.

- I've been on several dozen projects across at least two dozen companies and cultures, and I don't think I've ever been on one where only 5th of people do all the productive/needed work. Not even remotely close :-/

Ah, so those are actors!

This was brave self exploration and a lot of empathy for others, I strongly resonate with everything you said. I think these surveys of people saying they feel more productive at home are taken as law right now but it will look different over time. From my perspective, there seems to be a negative feedback cycle too for a lot of people feeling bad from staying home over a long period of time and then wanting to stay home even more as the main lever for feeling better.

I tend to be in the same boat wrt WFH. I like it for being out 2 or 3 days in the week but any more it just turns me batty and I'm mostly reclusive.

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