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Comment by CoolGuySteve | Hacker News Reader

You'd think a fab, like most high tech, would be a "good job".

But close to where I lived in Cupertino there was a superfund site due to the all the insane chemicals that leached into the ground from a long gone clean room.

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Disclaimer: I was an intern at Micron while 3D XPoint was in development. I am entirely unfamiliar with the Lehi facility.

I can't say what I saw of fab production in Boise made it a "bad job", but like anything, there is a range of experiences. I've worked in a variety of manufacturing environments, and while clean rooms are certainly different than the others, I'd probably prefer it if I were a production employee. Personally I'd prefer it to cutting protein, but different strokes for different folks.

Overall it looks like Micron is taking a hit, given that they bought Intel's 49% stake for 1.5 billion less than 3 years ago. https://siliconangle.com/2019/01/15/micron-buy-intels-stake-...

Semiconductors inherently have a plethora of harsh chemicals involved. The country as a whole did a terrible job with waste management until we {society} got serious about not being absolutely awful to the environment. There are many waste sites which were never really documented, the environment wasn't considered when selecting them, etc. If that was the state of affairs at the time, it's not surprising that there are superfund sites at former clean rooms.

It does become difficult applying current standards to past actions. The condoned practice for certain categories of chemicals was to bury them. When those best practices are changed, you can't reasonably just dig it all up and deal with it. Digging it up is sometimes more hazardous to the environment than leaving it be. Some manufacturers have teams of contractors on site dealing with legacy waste issues. They're conducting and reviewing soil and water samples, reviewing drawings with known dump sites, water monitoring, etc before allowing any dirt to be moved.

I toured the Lehi “fab” in high school in 2002 or 2003. It’s still the largest emptiest building I have ever been in. I think something like 5% or less of the square footage was used. Supposedly it used more concrete than I-15.

When Micron expanded their fab in Boise, they didn't fill it up right away. They built it much larger than they needed at the moment because building fabs is incredibly expensive, tooling fabs is incredibly expensive, but building one marginally bigger isn't that much more expensive in terms of added construction and maintenance costs.

I’m well aware, although afaik they struggled to populate most the space for a long time. My uncle is a pipe fitter and Fab7/11 work has been practically seasonal since the 80s.

> My uncle is a pipe fitter and Fab7/11 work has been practically seasonal since the 80s

Is it really seasonal? Like tied to their Capex announcements or something?

Not quite, but it’s on and off many times over the years. The complex is more than a mile long so there’s always work in there. There used to be a small Philips fab too nearby, last several years more work has been available in refineries and power plants (natural gas conversion)

To clarify, the workers moving to Tyson aren't working on the food production. They're doing similar work that they did at Micron: maintaining and repairing chemical systems.

Is this a situation where technical and colloquial language mean different things, like when a company counts every molecule involved in a process is called a chemical? Like if you used water to clean the meat then it would be considered another chemical used?

If the answer is no, how do the skills necessary to build the two types of plants overlap? If I was asked an hour ago if I thought the same skills necessary to maintain chemical systems in a chip fab we’re the same kind of skills necessary to maintain a meat processing plant, then I would have confidently said no.

A lot of what go into both are the same: Water, heat, filtration, purification, etc.

In fact, a lot of chemical engineering (some would say the lion's share) has to do with heat and water management. It's a huge factor whether you're operating a clean room or an oil refinery.

These are the guys hooking up valves, fixing pipes, monitoring how chemicals are loaded from the trucks into the plant systems... doesn't much matter that's flowing through the pipes- the workers can read the data sheets and procedures and work on anything.

Again, these are blue collar jobs. High school education at best. Mostly a manual labor job. They're not designing the plant, just operating and repairing it according to plans designed by someone else.

EDIT: Here's a list of chemicals used in meat processing: https://www.osha.gov/meatpacking/hazards-solutions. Ammonia for refrigeration. Chlorine, hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid for disinfectant. The chemicals are delivered to the plant in concentrated forms and diluted for use.

I've been saying for years now (probably gonna get down voted for this) - everyone wants to buy American and to make more products in America - with the amount of chemicals involved in electronics manufacturing required, who the hell wants these things made here?

Most companies are not safe or environment cautious - how many tails of leaks or problems with chemical processing plants have there been? No one wants that stuff in our ground water...

Don't get me wrong; it's not acceptable anywhere / other parts of the world - just looking at the whole "let's make everything here!..." but why?

Economic security?

I hear stories from them all the time. Casual discussion of the times they're gotten sprayed in the face or splashed with various chemicals. Of people being injured by falls. Of the chemicals that will kill you 10 minutes after skin contact.

I'm really glad my friends are jumping ship before they get seriously hurt. A few commute by motorcycle and we joked that the ride in was the least dangerous part of their day.

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