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Comment by fungiblecog | Hacker News Reader

I'm sure there is brain activity that prepares the baby for birth, but calling it a "dream" is just clickbait

The researchers call it "dream-like" and it is, in the sense that, like a dream, the neurons are stimulated and activated as though sensory input was occurring despite there being no actual stimuli.

Huh, how weird. How are those stimulis generated? Through the mother's eyes or brain activity?

Nitpick: stimuli is already the plural of stimulus.

"Dream-like" implies they are genetated directly in the fetus brain without external stimuli.

Foetus can have, and will have, direct experience of the world before birth. In the last months of pregnancy they definitely can hear what is happening outside. Will also react to strong noises or gentle pressure.

Seeing differences at daylight or obscurity while in the womb does not seem impossible. Anybody that has closed the fist over a strong flashlight knows that the flesh is not totally opaque.

Is this dreaming? Maybe, maybe not. Other explanations are possible.

The headline is kind of beautiful, even if wrong. In a /r/BrandNewSentence kind of way, but also subtle commentary about cognition and our place in the consciousness landscape.

"Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born"

Wow, those are some evocative feels in those words.

I immediately thought about Google's "DeepDream" and how reversed back propagation gives us a projection of the network. Growing brains similarly fire before they're trained on real world perceptual inputs. Maybe these have shapes that evolved to be world-like and give babies an advantage in the fitness landscape.

My next thought: what if what we're collectively doing now -- all of our neural connectomes growing, dying, forming new connections, evolving understandings. Society, basically -- is the same shape of an AGI before birth? Maybe alien worlds tend towards this path too. A bad analogy, sure, but maybe it's the shape of the universe's consciousness being bootstrapped, before it awakens. Not getting into metaphysical garbage -- just thinking about what's to come.

I guess the suggestion that fetuses might dream probably seems outlandish if, for some reason, you were already committed to the idea that fetuses are "not alive."

I find it highly implausible that many people believe fetusus are "not alive". You might be referring to the widely held position that an early-term fetus isn't sufficiently developed to be considered a full-fledged human, and that any rights it might have don't outweigh those of the mother who is carrying it?

I've found that "fetuses aren't alive" is a common talking point espoused by people who aren't comfortable sitting in a moral gray area and want an simple excuse to resolve their cognitive dissonance. It's common enough that I can't help but wonder if that is the reason people are so resistant to the idea that fetuses might dream. It seems remarkably similar to "farm animals can't feel pain". A transparent fib people tell themselves to feel better about their positions. Incidentally, I eat meat and I am pro-choice.

I think you've confused the talking points.

I've heard the saying that fetuses aren't conscious, but I've never heard anyone, however fringe, say fetuses aren't alive.

Maybe so, though this too seems like a strange belief, and touches on the reason I find surprise at such things odd: it's been known for years that fetuses at late stages have cycles of REM sleep and apparent wakefulness.

Isn't that part of rationale for roe v wade 3rd trimester rule already?

I've never heard someone say farm animals can't feel pain.

I suppose you'll also claim you've never met a "vegetarian" who thinks "fish don't count."

They are all a stage of human life. I love the fact that they start learning languages before exiting the womb… Life is awesome!

Are you thinking about zygote rather than fetus perhaps?

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