Comment by kelnos | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kelnos | Hacker News Reader

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This is the trade off that I hate having to make, and I'm glad to see something like Calyx here.

I want a phone that respects my privacy and is secure, but I also want to use apps like Google Photos (my favorite app that I use more than anything, aside from Firefox), Lyft, Netflix, Slack, banking apps, airline apps, and, critically, Google Pay.

I get that using many of those apps might increase my exposure to tracking and privacy leaks, but I just want an OS behind them that I know I can trust in isolation, and that may have measures in place that at least try to mitigate some of the worst privacy abuses from the apps. (And if it can't always succeed at that, that's fine, I'll live.)

Meanwhile, my only real choices are stock Android, which I know I can't trust to protect my privacy (since Google's business model depends on that), and iOS, which will treat me like a child and not let me do what I want with my phone unless Apple approves. (I'm also really concerned about the privacy implications of Apple's plan to do client-side scanning for CSAM material, assuming that's true.)

So I just don't feel like there's anything out there right now that will let me run the apps I want, that is built in top of an OS that I feel I can trust. Calyx seems to be one of the few I've seen that looks like they're actually trying to be that.

I feel similarly. However I could probably drop Netflix, Slack (at a push), Google pay (painful) if I could find a replacement for Google photos, it's been too valuable in recording my life memories. The Apple CSAM story gave me a kick to think I don't want to be sending photos in the plain to Google either.

Alternatives seem to be Owncloud and Nextcloud, which have hosted options. I don't really want to self host but nice to have the option. Does anyone have experience with their android apps for photo storage as compared to Google photos? In particular autobackup and image scaling/compression would be nice.

I use ProtonMail and have started fiddling with their new calendar offering, I was half hoping they might have some encrypted storage service in the offing...

Note that the GrapheneOS developer has indicated they are working on getting the Google Play Services apps to run sandboxed like normal apps, without extensive system permissions. This could be quite promising.

Oh wow, this is actually amazing. I'm really impressed with the work the GrapheneOS folks are doing. Ah, damn, it looks like they've dropped support for the Pixel 2. I have a Pixel 4 as my daily driver, but I'd prefer to try it first on a phone I don't use all the time. Ah well. Perhaps the 4 will still be supported whenever I get my next phone :)

Some non-Twitter prose about the Play Services support (though it doesn't include the tweeted info about dynamite support being nearly finished): https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-play-services

You can still download the Pixel 2 images via getting the version from https://releases.grapheneos.org/walleye-testing if you really want to use it. There may be a final extended support release, but it's very insecure at this point and we won't be making those extended support releases for much longer.

At some point, the new hardware has been changed for good reason — exploits have been discovered!

Upgrading to a new-to-you few-hundred dollars Pixel every 2-4 few years isn't anywhere close to the expense of a new $600-$900 phone every 1-3yrs, the way people used to (and the way iPhone users still seem to).

This is very interesting. Do you have a link to the post or discussion?

Should have included this from the get go :) https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1422117365957922818

Thank you!

I agree, this is my stance as well,. Though I don't think Calyx tries to limit tracking on installed apps. I would recommend using something like TrackerControl to limit those.

TrackerControl doesn't encrypt your DNS queries, though. You'd need to proxy DNS requests to another app like http://github.com/ch4t4r/Nebulo which supports DoT / DoH3 / DoH for that.

(disclosure: I co-develop a FOSS TrackerControl alternative)

What is your trackercontrol alternative called? What makes it better or worse?

RethinkDNS + Firewall: https://github.com/celzero/rethink-app

TrackerControl has a tad better UX; is built on top of the super-stable NetGuard and hence inherits its flaws and merits.

For instance, it does not support DoH/DoT/DNSCrypt.

It also leaks DNS connections over TCP (this happens when a DNS question or answer payload is too big to fit in a single UDP packet). In fact, all userspace DNS clients on Android I have taken a look at, leak DNS queries over TCP.

TrackerControl does not trap all packets over port 53, which RethinkDNS does by default.

TrackerControl isn't geared towards bypassing censorship. RethinkDNS can bypass stateless firewalls employing a similar trick to GreenTunnel, and we plan to implement a couple more such mitigations.

Unimplemented but soon, RethinkDNS would let users block connections if apps don't resolve DNS with a resolver of their choosing.

RethinkDNS has open-sourced both its client app and a pi-hole like stub resolver: https://github.com/serverless-dns/serverless-dns

There's three of us working on RethinkDNS full-time, so it is likely to see feature development at a faster clip than TrackerControl and NetGuard (the latter's been put under maintanence mode by its original developer).

Super solid firewall, since I found it never look back.

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