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Comment by JumpCrisscross | Hacker News Reader

Do we know who within Apple is pushing for this?

I don’t think anyone within Apple is pushing for this, I assume the pressure is coming from somewhere external or they’re anticipating pressure because the feature doesn’t really make a lot of sense right now. We’ll probably get the actual truth years from now in some leak.

It's so bizarre how hard they're pushing this, even though they don't really gain much from it. This is especially weird because Apple has always pushed for user privacy. I just don't get it.

As a cloud photo hosting provider (iCloud) they might legally be required to (IANAL).

Google [1], Dropbox [2], Microsoft [3], and many many other Photo Cloud storage providers have implemented similar child porn detection.

[1] https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/news/crime/2021/03/22/...

[2] https://gizmodo.com/dropbox-refuses-to-explain-its-mysteriou...

[3] https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/02/21/microsoft-aler...

Nope.

This is the text of the current law [1]. Alerting authorities about CP is required if discovered. Actively searching for CP is not required. Look for the aptly named "protection of privacy" paragraph.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2258A

> As a cloud photo hosting provider (iCloud) they might legally be required to (IANAL)

This doesn't explain the insistence on scanning all images on device, whether they're hosted on iCloud or not.

The moment for leadership from Cook has come and almost passed. It's surprising watching Apple squander its brand at this moment. A good amount of its previous support with respect to federal antitrust has permanently dissipated.

They only scan images for CSAM before they’re uploaded to iCloud. If you don’t use iCloud then that check will never happen.

That is true today and they pinky promise not to enable it down the road.

[...] they might legally be required to (IANAL).

They're only obligated to report if found, but they don't have to proactively scan (yet?). In the EU until recently they weren't even allowed to voluntarily scan.

In the crazy universe where Apple rolls this back, what does it look like? Cook resigns? Craig? Team is sacked?

Nobody needs to resign. Nobody needs to be sacked. They just need to acknowledge the mistake and not push the spyware update.

Trust takes years to build and seconds to break. I could be grossly overestimating the impact that this has had to their brand. But in my eyes, I can't see a way that they revert the damage, even if they revert the decision.

This device that I've cherished so long scares the hell out of me now!!!

Even as someone in tech, I am having a terrible time finding a viable replacement for my iPhone and MacBooks. People won’t inconvenience themselves too much. If there is no easy alternative, most people will choose not to think about it and carry on as before.

Hard disagree. This entire process reveals systemic rot at Apple.

The engineers who built, the project managers who coordinated, and the executives who signed off on this smoothbrain idea need to be drummed out without ceremony.

No severance, no golden parachutes, no cushy board jobs etc.

People need to understand they risk their livelihoods building and deploying a surveillance system like this. In a just world they would face criminal charges.

Yes, we do indeed disagree. This was a mistake. This was a bad idea. But nobody died, and it hasn't even been deployed yet. We should try to lower the stakes involved in admitting mistakes and correcting bad decisions. If making a mistake is a career death sentence, then people just dig in and become intransigent.

Yeah I still remember Scott Forstall being pushed out over the Apple Maps failures. And that is how Jony Ive came to take over both hardware and software design, leading to the end of skeumorphic design that Jobs loved so much - and made the iPhone so unique.

Now Apple’s just a follower…

I heard he was pushed out not due to the failure but that he refused to improve and accept the mistakes that he made. It pissed off Tim Cook who was already mad that he apparently couldn't work with the other team members well.

Take all this with a grain of salt. I wonder if Jobs was just good at managing these brash personalities together.

>leading to the end of skeumorphic design that Jobs loved so much

Jobs loved the end of skeumorphic design or Jobs loved skeumorphic design?

Loved it, apparently.

https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobss-signature-design...?

1. Apple faces looming antitrust battles.

2. FBI/CIA, frustrated at previous failures, pressure senators/congresspeople to turn up the heat.

3. FBI/CIA then gives Apple the option to implement surveillance with the promise that they can make the antitrust troubles go away if Apple does what they want.

4. Apple does the thing. (We're here now.)

5. Antitrust case goes away.

The FSB, CCP, and other intelligence orgs might be trying the same strategy in their countries.

I expect this is how everything works in the big leagues.

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