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Comment by gjsman-1000 | Hacker News Reader

Trans people have basic civil liberties already. You can't kill them, they can own property, they can work a job, they can rent a house without discrimination (legally at least), and so forth.

Bathroom bills, on the other hand, require acceptance by everyone that they are who they say they are. And to put it simply, half of America (roughly speaking) doesn't find that convincing. To them, who are these people who would invade their right to bathroom privacy? Do their rights not matter? That's very different than a right to work a job or own property.

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> You can't kill them

I welcome you to the real world: “trans panic defense”.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense

And we're getting rid of it. But that's over the right not to get killed - not the same as having people accept you in the bathroom.

>>To them, who are these people who would invade their right to bathroom privacy? Do their rights not matter?

Can you please tell us which rights are being violated here exactly, I'm super curious. Most people just go into a stall, close the door, do their business and leave - who cares if they are trans or not. Do you peek into people's pants when you go into a public bathroom??

Maybe you are a mom who is changing an infant, and having a trans person (because they can sometimes be off-putting) enter the room is disturbing enough to be on a similar emotional level to a trans person being denied bathroom access. You might say, well whatever, she's transphobic - but you are prioritizing the trans' persons emotions over the mom's however you slice it.

>>Maybe you are a mom who is changing an infant

I'm a father who has been changing infants in public bathrooms for quite a while and I'm sorry, but that's a crazy argument. Absolutely completely 10000% bonkers.

>>(because they can sometimes be off-putting)

Your chances of running into a non-trans off-putting person in a public bathroom are several orders of magnitude higher. If I'm changing my baby and a drunk dude stumbles into the bathroom I'm feeling all tense, but only because they might be an actual threat, even accidentally(stumble and trip or something). But hey, it's a public bathroom - should we ban people that make me uncomfortable in public places?

Like, you're literally making the same argument as people saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to display affection in public because it can make them uncomfortable - and why should you prioritise their emotions over your own?? Think of the children!!! /s

>> and having a trans person enter the room is disturbing enough

How. Please explain how is that disturbing. In fact how can you even tell someone is trans unless you

1) asked - and why would you in a public bathroom

2) looked them in the pants, and probably even that is not a good indicator.

Do you imagine that all trans people look like men in drag or something? Have you ever met a trans person outside of a South Park episode?

>>You might say, well whatever, she's transphobic

She is transfobic in your specific example, because she's immediately judging someone without any reason. Same as if she was uncomfortable with a black lady walking in - we would call that racist, and I would say her emotional state about black people is unfortunately worth exactly jack shit and we shouldn't care about it.

I would think the government making laws banning folks from using certain bathrooms is very much a civil liberties issue.

But maybe it's common for US States to have laws telling men they are barred from women's toilets and vice versa, and everyone accepts those?

To me that sounds preposterous, but in such a society I could see the discussion arise.

TL;DR: if you substitute "trans" for "blacks" (or any other offensive term for a protected minority), does it become discrimination? If yes: it already was discrimination.

Your TLDR doesn't work always. If you substitute a million terms, "murderer community," "pedophile community," "MAGA community," "unvaccinated community," does it still work? You might still support trans rights, but can accept this isn't a very good defense.

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