Comment by bamboozled | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bamboozled | Hacker News Reader

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I’m younger than you, had the same issue and solved it by working less and doing more outside. Lifting weights in the sun, mountain biking, golf, surfing.

In understand this is a luxury not everyone can afford but what I do now is work from about 6-9am, go out during the day until about 3, work 4-6. Which if you add it up is still a solid 5 hour day.

For whatever reason it just makes me more productive and sleep better at night.

Before I did this I just felt like a slave to my computer, super tired all the time, depressed and lethargic. I had sleeping problems because I felt like I was missing out on “life” and for some reason I’d stay up late on Instagram, YouTube etc, maybe watching others live vicariously ? I felt dissatisfied.

Knowledge work pays well but IMO it can come at a pretty high cost if you don’t prioritise your life.

Edit: I read your reply on another post, I think you’re doing way too much at your job. It’s not manageable and it sounds like you’re burned out and likely failing at at least one of your duties making you feel down.

100% same on all of what you said, and I'm 29. If you're lucky enough to work in a job where you need to produce each week, but can crank whenever you want - go outside to get at least one long-ish walk/bike ride and also one weight/yoga sesh.

I see no point to be sitting at the computer if it's a beautiful day and I already got stuff done early or am going to do stuff late.

How do you handle meeting from 9-4pm?

I’m lucky in this respect, I’m in a different timezone to the main teams. They’re asleep when I’m awake mostly.

I know smart people manage this by blocking calendars etc though.

Hmm, wondering when do you go to sleep if you wake up at 6? 9? That kind of sucks.

It's the most common time to wake up. I'm surprised that you've never had a job that required you to wake up at 6 or earlier.

> Most common time people choose to wake up: 6:00 AM

https://snoozester.com/The-Wake-Up-Time-Report.snooze

> The peak time for waking up is between 6 and 6:30am.

https://www.edisonresearch.com/wake-me-up-series-2/

The terms "choose to" and "peak time" would imply that those are the most favored times, but the very concept of jobs requires that people wake up at those times whether they want to or not. In fact, the big peak in average waking times in June (when many people have vacations) seems to indicate that most people will in fact wake up later when they do have the choice.

Not OP, but I usually go to bed at 10 and wake up at 4:30 or 5. It only sucks if you are a night owl.

That's like 6-7 hours of sleep (below recommended normal). Do you take naps during day time?

That's not wildly outside normal ranges. The average recommended sleep for an adult is 7-9 hours, with up to an hour variance outside that still being within healthy ranges for some people.

No naps during the day. I just let go of my notions about how much sleep was enough, and started going to bed when I was tired and getting out of bed when I wake up. I do not use an alarm to wake up, and I do not get tired during the day, so I think I've settled on an adequate sleep schedule for my body.

I have the same schedule. I don’t take naps, and I can’t sleep more than 7 hours unless I’ve really pushed myself into exhaustion or I’m ill.

Ever since the Apple Watch came out, I tracked my sleep and for the last two years I average 6.5 hours, no matter what.

I just kind of assumed it was a consequence of becoming older.

I usually go to bed about 10-11, mostly get 7 hours. I can’t really sleep for longer than that.

I exercise everyday it wakes me up if I feel tired.

How did you manage this with your employer?

Doing this:

* Plan ahead

* Establish a clear list of goals and objectives with your manager. Make sure your moving toward completion of the goals and they can see that. This keeps them off your back.

* Make it clear that you want to manage your own time and ask if that’s going to be an issue. If it is, find out what can be done to alleviate it.

Sorry if that sounded obvious but it’s taken me years to figure this out.

Work remotely and not be micromanaged is how I manage something similar. Mine might be even more extreme. Sometimes the second half of my biphasic work schedule may not occur until as late as 9 PM.

And SO and kids?

People with these sort of ideal solutions rarely have kids. The parent article is better advice in that domain.

In my experience, kids tend to just follow along with their parents habits.

Like one family I know eats dinner at 1 am, because that’s when the father gets home from work. The kids nap in the evening, and do homework past midnight.

I originally thought that was madness, but they have 6 kids and 4 have gone to Ivy League schools apparently it works for them.

Don't underestimate the practicality of telling people to fuck off, even if it will have to be put in different words. If for some reason that's not practical, then that's a problem in itself, so try working on that.

As harsh as it might sound to put it this way, the answer for how some people will be able to manage better with their SO and kids is, "because I don't have your SO and kids for my SO and kids," or more specifically, "by not allowing my relationship with my SO and kids to be like your relationship with your SO and kids." For kids especially and with people I know who have this problem, it's because they infantilize and underestimate their kids (past the point where they're actual infants) and think "that's just how they [i.e. kids] are." Your question posed as if it could have an answer that would somehow be general/widely applicable (and not highly dependent upon the tendencies and personalities of the people involved as individuals) certainly hints towards this.

>> Don't underestimate the practicality of telling people to fuck off, even if it will have to be put in different words.

A valuable (possibly the most?) life skill is to be able to tell people to fuck off in the most sincere and HR approved way imaginable, it's very empowering, would recommend 10 for 10.

Not what I was talking about. What you're describing is a great way to make your co-workers hate you (or make your subordinates hate working for you if you have any and you tolerate this style of communication) while telling yourself how clever you are for figuring out how to flip the script on the system. It's not clever at all. Anyone with a brain can see what's going on when you do it, and it shouldn't be permitted just because someone managed to make their barbs in subtext, rather than explicitly peppering in words like "fuck you." Not-clever toxic passive aggression is one of the worst contributions that office culture has "given" to modern society. And it's certainly not something that makes sense for someone to recommend weaponizing against one's family...

The practicality of telling people to fuck off means saying the equivalent of, "I need you to fuck off right now [so I can take care of something important without any distractions/obstructions]," ideally having cultivated the kind of relationship where the receivers understand that importance, whether it's stated plainly or merely implied.

Having an SO and/or kids can involve more than just tendency and personality issues. Even with the healthiest of boundaries some constraints are non-negotiable and possibly outside ones control.

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