I'm vaccinated and even though my country hasn't got you're-not-allowed-to-do-anything-unless-you're-vaccinated authoritarianism like Lithuania for example, I would want off this ride if things go in that direction.
Meanwhile vaccinated deaths remain very low and unvaccinated very high. Sooner or later there won't be many unvaccinated left to spread the disease
Ah yes, their ranks might be thinned by up to 0.2% if they all catch COVID!
We'd be in Walkin' dead territory...
yeah, the disease will still spread happily among vaccinated people, and you have achieved nothing in terms of disease eradication.
Just get the damn vaccine. I’m not suggesting you need to run out and get the first ones off the production line if you want to be more cautious, but once half the country has gotten it there’s really no logical reason to be hesitant.
I also think we’d save an awful lot of lives if the flu vaccine was mandatory at least for K-12 children, at basically no cost.
Is drinking alcohol an acceptable risk? Drinking and driving? Drinking and boating? Riding a motorcycle? Riding a bicycle? Skydiving? Riding in a small plane? Not getting a yearly flu shot? Going for a walk in the woods where Lyme disease is endemic? Drinking unpasteurized juice or milk? Eating raw eggs? Raw fish? Not wearing a seatbelt?
As far as vaccines go, I was happy to get mine when I was allowed to. I wouldn't have liked to be the first, but I wasn't permitted to, and I didn't want to look stupid by getting ill before being vaccinated, so it worked out fine.
But if it becomes a thing that everybody is encouraged to get boosters, the fact that I went right out and got the vaccine in the first place doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to automatically get another shot.
If there is another big wave, if there is another variant, if half the country has gotten a booster, maybe then. But I'm not taking people seriously who egregiously exaggerate their certainty about uncertain things.
I got vaccinated because I was comfortable with the information I had on the risks and benefits, not because I consider it unreasonable to question any recommended medical treatment.
I totally agree with this, and I've made the same argument in the past as a reason to get rid of most social distancing measures (which I think we should do).
But I think of risks in terms of tradeoffs. What is the risk-benefit tradeoff of sky diving? Well, for many people, that's a life-changing experience: well worth the risk! What is the risk-benefit tradeoff of not wearing a seat-belt? You're more likely to die in a car crash, in exchange for, I don't know, not fumbling with the buckle for a half a second? This isn't hard, just put on your seat belt.
> But if it becomes a thing that everybody is encouraged to get boosters, the fact that I went right out and got the vaccine in the first place doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to automatically get another shot. If there is another big wave, if there is another variant, if half the country has gotten a booster, maybe then.
As someone who's in favor of vaccine mandates, I think this is totally reasonable—and I don't think it's going to be a problem for you. While I could certainly be wrong, I don't see the US changing the meaning of "fully vaccinated" until booster shots are widely available and a large majority of the public has them. Just as we didn't start to see vaccine mandates become a thing in earnest until this fall.
If I was at the proverbial gates of heaven talking to St. Peter, I would want to be able to say I wasn't grossly negligent in whatever sent me there. Meaning I took, not the optimal, but the customary precautions.
I'm not sure that I truly understand the concept of comparing risks and benefits. If I do something risky, that's an abstract concept. In fact, either I die or I don't. If I don't, of course it was worth it. But how does that show the benefit was greater than the risk? Any risk that doesn't happen feels the same as any other.
I have gone skydiving, and at the time, it seemed like an experience worth having. After the second time, it didn't any more. Part of the thrill, I guess, is the proximity to death if you don't perform the right actions at the right time, and I tend to screw up under pressure.
I was conditioned early to always wear my seatbelt in a personal vehicle, but I don't think there is logic to it when I start comparing it to other risks.
As a child I didn't wear a belt on the school bus, because nobody else did (or there weren't any). I think I've ridden on city buses that didn't have any, but I also have the impression that accident rates are really low for various reasons. As a freshman in college, I rode in the bed of a pickup truck, even though I was uncomfortable doing it. I prefer to be secure, but peer pressure could override that.
When I'm on an airplane, I buckle my belt as instructed, but I think the decrease in risk is probably not logical justification, as the risk is already so low.
And I have sometimes ridden motorcycles, so if that's a reasonable thing to do, then why not go unbelted in a car, if you like? I mean, except for, say, being ticketed. Do 3-wheeled vehicles that legally count as motorcycles have belts? I think I've read about airbag devices for motorcycles, which are interesting, but I don't really think they should be mandated and universal like with cars.
I would very much like consistency and simplicity in rules in a particular area (like the pandemic), rather than continual murky arguments over what is optimal.
I think it's ok to compartmentalize and not try to reconcile with all our other activities.
Standing six feet apart and wearing masks in buildings open to the public is simple enough, but it's become complicated over time.
Where I live, most businesses seem to have their employees wearing masks, but the customers generally aren't. I too, am required to wear a mask at work. I dislike spending thought on what arbitrary thing to do in daily life.
Simple rules that lead to a harmonious daily life are better than obsessing over what is perfect or optimal. That is my belief.
Everyone who engages in any social contact with others could potentially transmit to them a pathogen which proves lethal. This emphatically includes those who have taken the COVID-19 vaccines.
One +1 point for scenarios like polio, where it's been virtually eliminated in the US by way of successful vaccination programs. [0] One -1 point for scenarios like influenza, which despite still causing many deaths per year, receiving a flu shot is encouraged but not required. [1]
Before the stops were pulled out for Covid, previous attempts at using these platforms foundered because waning effectiveness necessitated repeat dosing (hmmm...) and cumulative toxic effects were observed over time (hmmmmmmmm...)
Could you please share more information on this?
I didn't know the vaccine was free. I'm glad to learn that Pfizer is not making any money on all this.
Oh wait, we all do, in one way or another...
What other pathogens are similar to Covid-19 on all of the following dimensions?
- transmissibility (let's say this is equal to R number[1])
- mortality rate
- hospitalization rate
- long-term disability rate
- cost of treatment
- difficulty of preventing hospitalization
I don't know of any disease that's similar. When you take the vaccine, your risk of hospitalization and death are dramatically reduced, and you're much less likely to give it to someone else.
> This emphatically includes those who have taken the COVID-19 vaccines.
Yes, but degrees matter here. Risk is fine and a part of life. Being unvaccinated is an unnecessary risk to yourself and others.
1. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52473523
2. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-l...
Who decides what is unnecessary? You? On what kind of authority?
I appear to hold an unusual in-between opinion on COVID restrictions, because I'm actually against continuing mask mandates. IMO, masks have a very clear downside: in terms of psychological well-being, the ability to see faces and reading expressions is actually incredibly important! So even if there's a public health benefit to universal masking, it's not worth the trade-off except in extremely exceptional circumstances.
But vaccines? Just get vaccinated!
Is there really clear evidence of a meaningful effect of a booster at this point, for people not in specific categories?
I assumed not, or else they would be recommending it.
Personally, I got a pretty strong reaction to my second shot, and I'm not eager to experience that or worse again, nor am I sure that the severity of the reaction implies its efficacy.
I guess the difference between us is, I'm very confident the definition will only be changed when and if that evidence exists.
You should ban driving immediately if that is your line of thinking.
And sex should be next in the list of activites to ban since you can catch deathly STDs.
I love this kind of commentary.