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"Dropping in a cheaper keyboard and cutting the touch bar is a mistake."

Sometimes people state their opinions as facts. Sometimes people don't say anything to defend or explain their opinions. They just blurt them out. An it makes the internet so fun!!

Doesn't need more explanation. That touch bar was very useful.

> That touch bar was very useful.

To some people, not all. There was probably just as large a contingent of people who hated it as there was who loved it.

I think Apple should have made it an optional BYO feature, but they didn't so that's what we're stuck with.

For what? I've never seen any use case. Were there specific apps for specific markets that made use of it?

My favorite one was MS Word/MS Office. It was always contextual, just quick tap on touchbar without reaching mouse and clicking option on ribbon menu. TBH I think that from apps that I used daily only MS and Apple tried to figure out how to make touch bar usable.

I think that for a lot of professionals, dropping the touch bar, including HDMI, more graphics processing power (which is especially useful for those in the graphics/video industry), and more battery life, at the cost of a higher weight and price, provide the right trade-offs.

So it's a graphics editing workstation for the laymen with too much money. And that's fine. But it's not a developer system.

> But it's not a developer system.

I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day.

> I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day.

I think Apple's notion of "pro" includes people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. It just doesn't include ALL people who spend time in front of a text editor all day.

Developer is a very broad term. I am no Apple fan, but I would be lying if these new Macs aren't more than satisfactory for a large number of developers. Maybe not for developers who have specific or advanced needs, but I think plenty of developers would be super happy with these new Macs.

I'm a developer and these laptops are exactly what I was hoping they were going to release. Perfect in every way.

> But it's not a developer system.

Define developer system. I've exclusively used Macs for development for over a decade.

Apple is expensive, they don't know what they're doing, it's not really Pro, etc, etc, etc. These unique and new complaints about Apple must keep their executives up at night as they execute mistake after mistake, only becoming the most valuable company in the world through continual Acts of God.

Show me another laptop that does all these things:

1. Benchmarks >12000 in Cinebench R23 (i.e., very solid CPU performance)

2. GPU benchmarks at or above an RTX 3060 laptop

3. Over 10 hours battery life for typical light web browsing tasks

4. Under 40dB of noise at full fan speed

5. No loss of benchmarking performance after 30 minutes of load (i.e., no thermal throttling)

(Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM)

They don't exist. Apple is selling a literal unicorn and you're complaining that the unicorn should come with glitter.

They are impressive machines, but you can’t run Windows on it … yet, which is a big deal for many. Very few games are optimized for it, which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this.

Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee.

> which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this

I think this is a big misunderstanding of Apple's customer base for these systems.

These GPUs are optimized for rendering tasks, not for FPS count for gaming.

> Very few games are optimized for it...Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee.

There is a guarantee, and that guarantee is hardware-level compatibility with iOS and iPad platforms.

There's a whole section of the Mac App Store called "Great iPhone and iPad Games for Mac with M1"

iOS and iPad probably represent a larger gaming installed base and revenue than PC and consoles combined.

Opinions may vary, but personally I think that being able to run Windows on your Mac is far, far down on the list on reasons to purchase a Mac. It was a very handy tool to have especially 15 years ago when the Mac didn't have as much commercial support, but in 2021 I don't think a lot of potential Mac customers really care about Windows compatibility.

“These GPUs are optimized for rendering tasks, not for FPS count for gaming.”

A small market indeed. Very few people need this powerful of a computer. Most people browse the internet, use a word processor, and some play demanding video games. Video games is the only category that remotely approaches the need for these powerful machines by John Q Public.

At that weight and price it's competing with desktops. They're cheating. That thing is as portable as stone henge.

3.5 pounds is "as portable as stone henge"? If you prioritize lightness you can maybe shave about a pound off that--and for travel I sort of wish Apple would still make a sub-13" model. But that's squarely in the weight range of laptops in general.

It is expensive. I give you that. And for many people it's probably overkill.

Sure, okay, then find me a competitor that does all the things I listed that this machine can do in an equivalent or smaller size.

I presented sourced evidence showing why I think this computer is in a class of its own, so I'd be really excited to be proven wrong.

This person is obviously trolling

I don't like the notch, but the 120Hz is nice to have (we also scroll and have transitions on a computer). I don't use HDMI anymore, but it doesn't hurt to have it. SD Cards? That's what my camera uses, so it will be used. Touch bar? I have no use for it (in fact I use it with the old style layout). PR? Ignore it. My main "issue" with the new laptops is the price and the notch (I don't mind the lack of face ID).

Different people have different needs. This laptop probably isn't for you.

If they don't have the notch, then you get the same real estate as of the current macs. Instead with the notch they are able to cut out more space out of the top bezels that can now be used for the menu bar. So you are just getting more available space than you would have otherwise. The didn't add a notch that goes down further than existing MBP bezels go, so they didn't add it to add more things such as Face ID. They just simply removed the bezel from the left and right.

There's other options. The Dell XPS has top bezels smaller than the previous MBP while still having a front facing camera up top. I think it's an extra 1 mm across the top compared to the notchless part of the new MBPs. Based on my shitty photo measurements the notch actually takes up MORE surface area than just having a consistent slightly thicker bezel across.

Or perhaps they could have opted for an underscreen camera like the Fold 3 or something else?

I feel like this was done for branding to tie it into the iPhone.

I think what's happening here is "if you're going to give me 75 cents, you may as well have given me the full dollar".

For most people, that notch tradeoff is fine, but there will be a segment of people who care more about having those extra pixels.

I get that, but what about aesthetics? I stare at that part of the screen every time I use the computer. Now I'm looking at a black square hole.

You stare at the bezel all day long? Or you stare at the empty spot in the menu all day long? Either way makes no sense to me. What is it you are staring at all day long?

99% sure this user is just trolling you.

Most of the hyperbolic Apple complainers seem to be trolls to me. "But the notch!" You mean, the option they chose which gives you more screen real estate (if you show your menu bar) and no loss of screen real estate (if you default hide it, like me)? "But USB-A!" You mean the port that doesn't support as much throughput (power or data) as USB-C? The one you can get a cheap adaptor for if you really need it? The one you haven't had on your MBP for 6 years anyways?

> What does pro even mean?

It means “the materials and manufacturing budget is increased to allow the designers to push the diminishing-returns boundary further.”

For competitive use-cases, where an increase in capability makes the difference between winning and losing, paying the increased cost of the more capable tool is a sound tactic.

That's meaningless marketing nonsense.

And it's been called the MacBook Pro for 15 years, I think it's time to get over it.

It was admittedly likely a more meaningful distinction when a plain (white) MacBook was clearly much more oriented towards students and casual users than professionals using it day to day for business purposes.