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Comment by nitrogen | Hacker News Reader

I have a proposal for advertisers to reach the audience most likely to skip advertisements and stream or download shows:

Instead of expecting viewers to put up with 18 minutes of mindless advertising for every 42 minutes of actual content, just show a ten second long list of sponsors at the beginning of the show (along with their general product category), after the opening credits.

Example:

  We would like to thank the following corporations
  for sponsoring the production of this show.  Please
  consider thanking them as well, by purchasing their
  products.
  
  PanCorp - Maker of fine non-stick cookware
  Net Net - High-speed ISP, gigabit speeds
  ...

Then, the creators of the show would plead with uploaders to leave that ten second clip in. Advertisers could then count every download as a successful impression, and geeks like me who aren't significantly influenced by traditional advertising would learn about potentially interesting products and services.

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I really don't think you understand how advertising works. I prescribe four seasons of Mad Men. (It's streaming on Netflix right now, y'know!)

geeks like me who aren't significantly influenced by traditional advertising

Do you really believe that you're magically superior to the things which influence the rest of the human race?

(If you do, then I know exactly how to make an ad to manipulate you already -- tell you what you want to hear by appealing to your sense of superiority.)

Do you really believe that you're magically superior to the things which influence the rest of the human race?

No, not magically, rationally. I deliberately disregard anything that is demarcated as an ad and look for and comment on things like product placement within shows. I've never seen a beer commercial with scantily-clad dancers and thought, "Man, I'd sure like a cold one." Cheap cable TV ads with flashing lights, out-of-gamut colors, and an 800 number repeated over and over just make me tune out and change the channel. I try to counteract the effect of logo and color familiarity by buying brands that look different from what I'd expect. Any time I learn of another subliminal advertising technique, I add a counterattack to my defensive arsenal. On top of that, if I record a show I use MythTV's commercial detection to skip ads entirely, and anyone who downloads their TV won't be seeing commercials either.

"But you're not in their target demographic." No kidding.

I'm not saying that I can't be reached by advertising -- I gave explicit directions for how to do so in my original post. I'm complaining that advertisers continue to reach to the same old bag of tricks, tricks that appeal to the lowest common denominator of animalistic behavior and consume 18 minutes of every programming hour. I'm saying those tricks don't work on me because I tune them out, skip them, block them, etc. I never answer surveys, I'm not a Nielsen participant, etc. I've tried contributing to media metrics with my Hulu viewing and rating habits, but Hulu continues to recommend shows from the same network rather than the same genre, and networks continue to alienate online viewers by delaying shows (Fox) or pulling them entirely (Syfy).

I'm offering a viable alternative for advertisers to earn money on someone like me, but advertisers seem to think they know better. In the mean time, I'll continue to apply whatever selective pressure I can to get advertisers and content producers to evolve.

(If you do, then I know exactly how to make an ad to manipulate you already -- tell you what you want to hear by appealing to your sense of superiority.)

I make a conscious effort to avoid this type of influence as well. [Edit: and I'm not motivated in this regard by a sense of superiority, either. The only sure way to influence me is with hard data demonstrating a high quality and utility of whatever product you're offering.]

Even if you can be reached by advertising (which, judging from the pride you take in averting it, I doubt), targeting you specifically would have a horrible ROI. You are not going to spend enough to make up for the loss of all the other people who respond to normal advertising.

This is the fallacy that is, IMO, killing online video. I am a tech guy with above-average lifetime income potential and influence on the high-tech purchasing decisions of my friends and family. I have money and want to spend it, but it seems nobody is selling what I'm looking to buy. I am not alone.

You're not alone, but are there as many of you as there are other people? Even if you and a hundred people like you spend 75% of your income on everything that's advertised according to your specifications, that's much less money than 5,000 people who make half as much as you do spending 5% of their income.

I don't expect anyone to give up the average consumer. I'm talking about earning money in venues in which there's a higher than typical concentration of geeks (e.g. online streaming of science fiction, P2P downloads). Sure, 5000 * .05 * x > 101 * .75 * 2 * x, but focusing on the first only gets (in this example) 62% of the available revenues. Why not capture some of that other 38% for significantly less effort than the 62%?

However, I do believe that manipulative advertising is a net detriment to society, regardless of how effective it is at reaching the average consumer.

It hardly matters if they put the sponsors in or not -- I personally skip the introductions to all the movies I watch, why should anybody not skip the sponsor list?

And I doubt anybody would upload a tv series episode where the commercials hadn't been cut out.

Advertisers and content producers seem to have a problem with people skipping their ads, going so far as to sue DVR makers for including a "skip 30 seconds" button. Clearly they believe there should be some kind of social contract[0], where they expect viewers to view their ads in exchange for watching the associated content. Such a social contract would be far more likely to be upheld if the ads consisted of a simple and informative list. Dedicated fans of TV shows will sacrifice ten seconds in order to support show creators. For that matter, they don't even need to watch the sponsor list for the full 10 seconds, as long as they know it's there, and that buying goods from those sponsors will keep their favorite show running.

[0] Actually it seems they want the force of law behind their business model...

Hulu does that AND still sticks commercials in, paid or not!

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