And of course nobody's wearing a mask. This pandemic is never going to end.
* you can social distance
* you can stay outdoors
* you can choose well ventilated businesses (which this place is, I've been there personally as recent as Friday)
* you can get vaccinated
What others are doing is none of your business at this point. Furthermore California is hosting the SuperBowl, NCAA tournaments, firing nurses, and the governor is on a book signing tour.
Lastly, Bentonville is marked by a massive population of people that bike and represent an extremely healthy segment. They are neither at risk for contraction or spread of the disease.
And after 6 months the effect of the vaccines starts declining and after 9 months they don't work anymore. That's why booster campaigns are starting now.
Most people in the US you mean? Look around at the rest of the world. Only around 60% of the world population has received at least one dose of a vaccine, and that's skewed dramatically towards developed countries. Meanwhile the virus, which knows no borders, is continuing to mutate out there.
The vaccines reduce the chance that you get infected, but you can still get infected and spread it. The vaccines reduce the chance of hospitalization and death for most people, but not for everyone.
If you don't wear a mask, and you give the virus to someone with your asymptomatic case, and they go home and give it to their immunocompromised family member, you might end up indirectly killing someone.
So what is your position, everyone should always wear masks at all time for the rest of time?
Nope, not going to do that
The pandemic doesn't only exist in how it affects you personally. There are many responsible vaccinated people who are going to die because of people who aren't wearing masks.
Masks and vaccines like this have not existed until relatively recently. We now have tools so that not as many people have to suffer and die from pandemics.
We have to look at those 1,000 per day, and ask are they dying WITH covid or FROM covid, currently there is a monetary incentive for health providers to label as many deaths as possible as "COVID RELATED" which then enables them to collect some or all of their costs from the government
>>We obviously won't be wearing masks until the end of time, but only until the virus is under control.
here is the rub, I do not believe it will ever be under control, what number is your target for under control? clearly 1,000 is to high for you (even though i suspect the real number is lower), would 300 be acceptable? Because that is "bad" seasonal flu level (for which we have had in the past with out this type of response) but I some how doubt you would say 300 deaths per day is "under control"
Sorry, that's ridiculous. If a person would not be dead if they hadn't contracted COVID, even if they had other health conditions, then masks and vaccines are a factor in preventing those deaths, and COVID is the cause.
If you throw a rock off of an overpass and it hits a car, and that car swerves uncontrollably and kills a pedestrian, then your throwing the rock was the fundamental cause of the death, not the driver of the car or the car itself.
If anything, the COVID deaths are underreported.[1]
The virus will eventually be under control, just like most other viruses in the past. We will have better treatments within a year or two. Paxlovid is one example, but there will be more. There might be only a handful of deaths once that happens. For the sake of the vulnerable people out there, we all have to practice basic virus safety until then.
[1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/05/covid-19...
No that is what is ridiculous, the idea we will get down to only a handful. At best it is going to have numbers at the same level as the seasonal flu. At best, most likely the mean annual average it going to trend slightly higher than the flu
>>Sorry, that's ridiculous
It is not
>>If anything, the COVID deaths are underreported.[1]
Well you might want to read the study closer, they are largely complaining about "indirect deaths" from covid. I quote
"Indirect effects may include increases in mortality resulting from reductions in access to and use of healthcare services and psychosocial consequences of stay-at-home orders," "
I would not classify these as COVID Deaths, but rather deaths due to people panicking and creating ridiculous rules around COVID, something you are advocating increase use of in this thread, which will simply lead to MORE indirect death
A classic case of the treatment being worse than the illness.
To be clear, if you want to wear a mask more power to you, if you want to ask others to voluntarily do it more power to you, if you want to ask business you transact with to require it of all customer as is their right as property owners more power to you, but you cross the ethical line for me when you adventure into wanting the government to mandate you will onto others backed by the full force and violence of that government. I dont care if that mandate is in the form of mask, vaccines, stay at home order, or anything else, I oppose all government enforced mandates related to COVID 19
The conversation isn't about government mandates -- it's about whether people should wear a mask and practice basic virus safety even after they are vaccinated. In any case, you already follow government enforced mandates that help protect us all: wearing seatbelts, not wearing earphones in the car, getting vaccinations to go to school[1] or enter countries, and much more.
Wearing masks doesn't lead to more indirect deaths. Not wearing masks prolongs the pandemic and leads to more direct and indirect deaths as well as prolonging the economic devastation that many are dealing with.
In times of severe catastrophe, we all have to work together to keep everyone safe. People who don't wear masks increase the risk of death for vulnerable people and prolong the pandemic.
[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/08/states-have...
Wrong, I know many people right now that are putting off seeing the doctor because of masking policies at many medical facilities.
>The conversation isn't about government mandates
Sure it is, as you prove in your next statement
>>e, you already follow government enforced mandates that help protect us all: wearing seatbelts, not wearing earphones in the car, getting vaccinations to go to school[1] or enter countries, and much more.
and I oppose all of those as well, just because we already have draconian authoritarianism does not justify more authoritarianism
Because they have to wear a mask at the medical facilities? If that's what you're saying, those people are extremely foolish and are choosing their own Darwin awards.
> I oppose all of those as well
I don't think there is anywhere else for this conversation to go, so let's end it. :)
As to the others I can make very strong cases as to why there real motivations, and actual execution are more harmful to the over all population their stated goals are. The government passes a law called "Help the puppies" but in the actual execution they are killing puppies but no on questions the results of government action just their intent and as they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions
If you think that seat belt laws, mask mandates during a pandemic, or school vaccine requirements are "draconian authoritarianism" you don't have a reasonable perspective on society or history.
Traffic injuries and deaths affect the whole system: EMTs/police who experience needless trauma, families (loss of income, parents, spouses, etc.), friends, health insurance, an increase in disabled people who draw from the system instead of paying into it, and much more. Seat-belt laws reduce the burden of car accidents on all of us.