Hacker News Reader

Comment by dheera | Hacker News Reader

How do rich people who aren't yet filthy-rich enough to have their own bodyguards deal with personal security in these places?

In the US, if you hypothetically had, say, $10M net worth, you'd be best to not let anyone know, and stay under the radar.

If you have a billion then it doesn't matter, go all out and hire your own 24/7 security team.

View on HN

You make sure crime doesn't pay. Simple as that. Countries with kidnapping are ones with very porous policing. You can go into any affluent neighborhood in the USA and see people worth 10m plus walking around with no bodyguards.

Key word there is neighborhood. Even in the Midwest US there can be very 'safe' neighborhoods right next to very unsafe ones, and the difference in the police resources from one block to the next is palpable.

Forcing construction of mixed income neighborhoods (much like forced busing of students) very quickly improves schooling and policing outcomes, though sadly more affluent folks often move out soon thereafter.

These used to be virtually crime-free countries. My sister lived in central Sweden for a year, coming from another EU country, and was genuinely shocked how crime was effectively an alien concept to the locals. And that was an university town, accepting international students for a long while. Unfortunately this seems to have badly changed over the last decade, according to my sister in law who lives in southern Sweden. The nation is also having a hard time adjusting to this new reality.

I live in Scandinavia. I refuse to believe that Scandinavia was ever virtually crime free. Anti-social behavior has always existed (also here).

"Sweden has for at least six years been struggling with a tide of gang violence that has contributed to its shift from one of the safest countries in the world to among Europe’s most violent. Last year, there were at least 342 shootings resulting in 46 deaths (up from 25 shootings in 2015), along with dozens of bombings"

-- https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/07/arts/music/einar-sweden-r...

So a 1268% increase in "anti-social behavior" since 2015.

Being one of the safest is not the same as being crime free.

Well it sounds like crime has greatly increased in Scandavia. Has that affected you at all?

Obviously there has been a massive increase in violent crime, I guess you live somewhere that you are protected from that?

I have not been personally affected, no.

May be localised bubbles. But both experiences are genuine. Note that what I mean by crime is "actual threat to anyone's safety", not "kids throwing a TV out of a window when moving out" (which apparently was a local student tradition and definitely an anti-social behaviour).

Especially the particular suburb of Stockholm has very quickly found itself in free-fall from "nothing bad ever happened here" to "you should not walk alone after dark".

Basically, your spending behavior and the location of your house gives you away when you are that rich. People with disposable income live in nice places, drive nice cars, wear expensive clothes, and frequent expensive restaurants In the US figuring out who has money and who hasn't is not rocket science. Most ad companies are actually very good at profiling users and their incomes. Public tax information would just confirm the obvious.

Personal security in countries with low crime and murder rates like Norway and Finland is pretty easy. They are very safe countries. E.g. kidnappings are very rare there and nobody carries cash anymore because they are also modern countries. So, the opportunities for robbers and thieves are limited to non cash items.

> Basically, your spending behavior and the location of your house gives you away when you are that rich

It doesn't have to though. That's a choice. Heck I know people with likely >10M net worth that are still living with roommates.

> nobody carries cash anymore

But if they know you have $10M, they could kidnap your spouse on the way to work, and children on their way to school, for a $1M ransom in bitcoin?

Something that's more easily avoided if they don't have a price tag associated with your face in a publicly-viewable database.

There are of course exceptions but mostly finding wealthy targets to rob or kidnap is not an issue for criminals. I'd argue that the opposite is a bigger issue for criminals in the US: plenty of people pretending to be rich that are deep in debt.

Finland and Norway have plenty of rich people walking around without protection and completely unarmed. Kidnappings are not a regular thing in those countries nor are they getting robbed regularly. They might install burglar alarms on their properties though.

There’s a huge observational bias there, though. Its easy to spot the ostentatious high income earners, and those living far beyond their means.

I don’t really see how this is a problem unless you hide your money in your mattress.

The emergence of modern states happened with the industrial revolution and the ascendence of the bourgeoisie. The original point of this centralization of power—although some are now a bit more egalitarian—is to protect private property and the interests of those who own it. And by that I of course mean the rich.

They start to move abroad. Seriously. Violent crime such as robbery at gunpoint in your own home, car jackings etc is an increasing problem which worry many in Sweden. It is perhaps not common but is increasing with a worrying pace.

That seems like such a middle class worry. I don’t see how people with tens of millions of USD (or equivalent of course) are more susceptible to opportunistic crimes like robberies and car jackings. If anything they are less susceptible since they can move to nicer places.

The question was, how do they act? And perhaps you have missed that discussion.

A US congresswoman was carjacked last week in Philly

Wouldn't even need to be that much, some people have been amazed that my 401k is a bit over the recommended amount for my age and income.

I mean to be fair 400k is pretty squarely middle class for a developed country. Not exactly a big target.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com