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Comment by willis936 | Hacker News Reader

Not all communication is verbal.

You can't be [friends in the same way you are friends with humans] an octopus because they are not human. I'm friends with my cat. We have a mutual social relationship and he doesn't speak a lick of English.

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You should read about experiments where they gave MDMA to octopus who are usually very unsocial… spoiler: it has an effect. They are fascinating animals.

They are highly intelligent, but have one big problem: their max. life expectation is about 5 years. Usually the mother dies at birth and they grow up alone from an early age, hence no social development (even to a degree where they are very hostile to other octopus).

So they have not a way of building culture like humans, like thr passing on knowledge to the younger generations. Though they kind of have 8 brains.

If they didn‘t have these problems, we might be talking differently about them.

One day I will open a training area with octopus & invest millions in trying to extend life expectancy & social behaviour of octopuses and train them to take over the world.

It is pretty amazing the extent of understanding you can achieve with an animal. After a year or so raising my pup, it feels like we have both picked up certain signals to communicate. He paws at me and then sits by the front door when he needs to go to the bathroom, for instance (although sometimes he cleverly abuses this because he just wants to go outside and play with me during worktime, but I can't fault him for that). I'm sure this is mundane for most people who are dog owners, but being my first dog I couldn't help but be impressed at the level of communication the little guy seems to be capable of.

I can't imagine they're the only animals capable of that. It certainly feels like we're friends with a mutual understanding.

Dogs are the champions of human communication. They are the first domesticated specie, not only they were predisposed to it, being pack animals. But they also had 15000 years of evolution to perfect it. Cats are not to the same level as dogs but they are still very competent domesticated animals.

Octopuses, by comparison, are aliens. In fact, someone said that if we want to have an idea of what alien intelligence could look like, look at octopuses. They are intelligent in a very non-human way.

Dogs have lived alongside humans for millennia. They're genetically engineered animals (in the oldschool way - by breeding and selection, not in a test tube). And we've bred them largely by rewarding their ability to interact with us. Dogs are obviously quite artificial species in that sense

Having grown up with a lot of domesticated animals, it's amazing how much dogs can communicate on our terms, compared to, say, a horse. Horses can communicate quite a bit, but you typically have to understand horses and meet them where they're at before you can effectivity communicate with them. Dogs do a much better job of trying different ways to get their point across to you until you get it.

> to get their point across

I love this phrasing, as I think it sums up the difference between dogs and other animals with regards to human communication. It's possible to communicate with other animals if you put in the effort, but dogs on the other hand are often willing to put in the effort to communicate with you!

A recent popular example of a horse communicating in their own way.

https://youtu.be/KCzwyFHSMdY

That's a good point. They've definitely been bred for their ability to communicate with us. I know it's a bit tangential, but I do like the fact we have a kind of sister species in that way. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if our ancestors had instead domesticated another animal to that extent (besides the cat, I suppose). In an alternate universe, maybe we'd have smallish bears as trusted companions :-)

If you lived near a farm or spent time at one, many animals are curious, intelligent and eerily sentient. They have things they want to do, they devise and follow up on plans to get to their goals which are not necessarily only based on eating.

"In an alternate universe, maybe we'd have smallish bears as trusted companions :-)"

Some people have even in this universe, but not so many, because they are not easy to handle. And back then having pets, was not so much a hobby - but the dogs were useful for survival. (guarding and hunting)

If you haven’t already seen it, I would highly recommend the film Grizzly Man about someone who lived with bears.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/

I would imagine wolves weren't to easy domesticate either

Not easy, but much more easy, because wolves are pack animals who accept a leader, which can be a human.

Bears not so much and therefore much harder to control. Same with cats, which is why they have been kept around to hunt the mice and rats - but only small cats.

Also I believe the first dogs did not came from wolves, but other wild dog breeds.

Felines of all sizes have social hierarchies.

They do, and like circus proofs, you can teach them. But since they are more individualistic, it is a lot harder.

I like to think I'm friends with my cat but in my heart I know I'm a combination of a roommate and staff.

> he doesn't speak a lick of English

Nicely done.

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