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Comment by cousin_it | Hacker News Reader

It's not about private companies. I have an account at a private bank and am not afraid of something like this happening at all. Because to the bank I'm not just an abstract "username and password": the account is tied to my real world identity, so in the last resort I'll prove to the bank that I'm me using state provided means. I'm getting more and more convinced that online accounts important to people's livelihood (like gmail where you have tons of important stuff) should work the same way, as a contract tied to your real world identity, and in doubt resolve things by webcam call or personal appointment.

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I see you haven't been a victim of identity theft yet.

It doesn't take much to hijack a bank account and eventually you will regain access, but it isn't as simple as you might imagine and a fair amount of damage can be done in a short period of time.

Most banks/CUs/payment processors automatically have insurance for these types of bad actors, even if it takes months to claw back your identity. Credit reporting typically takes much longer to fix but GP was referring to their bank.

I mean... banks are the worst in this case.

Banks are known to irreversibly close accounts if they think you triggered some random algorithm, you have the same name as a terrorist, you have the wrong job, they don't like how you're using your account, or any other completely random reason. The decision is final they'll usually even refuse to tell you why they closed your accounts.

I had a bank (BMO Harris) close an account because the only transactions I had for about a year or so was "received directly deposited paycheck -> transfer entire amount to other bank account." At least they actually told me the reason.

Banks have to report accounts with low balances after a certain number of days (45 IIRC). That reporting costs them money unless they’ve gotten it 100% automated.

That is until the bank happens to be 100% online.. they can’t verify your identity so they close your account and you can’t access your account nor contact the bank because you don’t have an account so you try to create an account to inquiry about your other account and they tell you you already have an account so they can’t open you an account and now you’re stuck with no way to contact the bank and no funds and noone able to help you. This is an extremely common scenario with banks in Germany.

This only works if you fit that stereotypical definition of what a "normal" person looks like or does. As soon as you deviate even a little from the norm, suddenly you got problems.

I had to do two interviews with a bank to open an account in UK because their automated systems were giving them "errors", apparently, when they're trying to check me. Normal people have to complete an online form (5 minutes) and will receive everything through post.

A year later I had to phone paypal support four times as it wouldn't accept neither of my two cards. On my 4th try I finally managed to get an actual English guy to answer my phone, who finally managed to understand every word I was saying without having me to spell anything letter by letter..

Last week I wanted to buy a plane ticket. I had no problems doing that until now (I had an old laptop with windows 7). Now, since running Linux, I open the website, as soon as I click search to find a flight, suddenly captcha! Every 3-5 minutes a new captcha...

This is a nightmare!

All of these things work well for the rich, but the number of unbanked working Americans is astronomical. They cash their checks for fees. Try visiting the customer service counter at a rural Walmart in the U.S. on a Friday and you will see what I mean. The line snakes back to the rear of the store.

Exactly how does commerce happen without banks at any scale? Banking has been around a lot longer than social media.

The unbanked Americans are people who either are unable to open an account, or have been denied opening accounts. To cash their checks, keep their income, etc..., they have to pay much more in fees.

Historically (in the U.S.) it was rooted in racism post-U.S. civil war. Now, less so. The history is still there, and the inability of poor people to obtain an account still exist. It excludes people from getting mortgages, loans, investing, etc. Cash App has become a digital bank for many of the unbanked. Before Cash App, decades ago, we had the U.S. Postal Service providing some banking services to Americans. (No, the USPS attempting to help Americans in this manner is not new, we've done it before)

I know a few "unbanked" people.

Some know don't have a bank account because they simply don't trust banks. They want to have access to 100% of their money 100% of the time.

Some don't have a bank account because they don't have income (adult dependents)

One didn't have a bank account because she was a minor and there was no adult around willing or able to open one for her to use.

When I was a kid I knew of a few adults who had bank accounts closed on them for check kiting, including my parents - I know of this because I overheard people talking about it quite a lot. I don't know what ended up happening after that, if they were able to open a new account or what. I know you probably wouldn't be able to open a new account nowadays with Chexsystem and the like. Of course, check kiting also isn't a thing anymore either.

I don’t blame them, places like Citibank and Chase exist to dip into your account as frequently as possible. Do you think it really costs $45 to handle a bounced check? It’s a completely automated process, costs them a fraction of a cent if you agreed to electronic documents, the rest is pure gravy.

However if your in the US and having trouble with the banks I’d recommend looking for “millennial” banking which is usually zero fee, but you can’t write paper checks and they are remote only.

My wife was paying almost a thousand a month in fees at a regular bank, after I moved her to one of the millennial banks she really prospered. She can’t overdraw the account anymore - and it’s not really an issue since the bank is no longer taking half her paycheck.

I call BS. Anyone with proper ID and payroll income can open a bank account. Most big employers (e.g. mine) will even require it -- payroll is made by direct deposit.

There may be minimum balance requirements and/or fees but if you shop around a bit (look especially at local credit unions) they are not onerous and are almost certainly lower than what check-cashing services will charge. They do demand a bit more management and responsibility compared to a wad of cash in one's pocket, but that's the way life is.

By "proper ID" you mean the right kind of country ID, I assume?

Cause I've been denied by two banks, the third bank even had two countries blacklisted.. that's right, on their official website they wrote: "we are currently unable to accept government issued IDs from X and Y" or something along those lines.

That's the history, but you're missing the context of today. Many "unbanked" americans are immigrants voluntarily trying to avoid reporting and stay off the grid.

The solution lay in busting bias and fixing immigration laws though, not banking.

I take it you didn’t go to the rural Walmart on a Friday. Otherwise you’d know that isn’t anywhere near true.

This is prejudicial. Help me understand - how exactly do you know all the people at WalMart on Fridays are illegal immigrants?

I grew up in rural america and worked part-time alongside illegal immigrants, so yeah, it is true even if we're using anecdotal evidence. Your Walmart anecdote is an example of survivor bias.

I’m saying that most unbanked Americans aren’t immigrants. You’re the one who said they were mostly illegal immigrants.

>You’re the one who said they were mostly illegal immigrants.

Please point out where I said this.

The bank doesn’t do that for you. The bank does that because regulators require them to as a condition of being in the banking business.

Banks would have ceased to exist centuries ago if they couldn't be trusted to do this in general. Regulations have very little to do with it.

To be fair, until comparatively recently, bank runs were a real and problematic thing.

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