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Comment by uxp100 | Hacker News Reader

Hah, I have an AC window unit from Miele that is a great piece of hardware. But the app, my god, it's so bad. Every launch of the app requires a log in. Every log in error messages pop up about api endpoint such and such, but it works anyway. If a command fails, which it does half the time, the app gets out of sync with the unit (i.e. app will say fan speed medium, unit will say fan speed low). So I guess it syncs state on startup and never again, and doesn't check if commands fail. But there is one feature I can only find in the app, not from buttons on the unit (turning all LEDs off on the unit while it continues to run).

The buzzwords I never hear on HN is Digital Twin. It's usually in a HVAC or like smart building context. It's a buzzword for a simple idea, but the makers of the Miele AC app probably should have thought a little harder about tracking system state, maybe read a little of the literature.

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I have a Miele speed oven that arrived with a major defect: Microwave worked, but heat modes didn't. They sent a repair crew and there was a missing wire harness in the circuitry. It never could have worked.

My experience with "high end" appliances in general (Bosch, Miele, Wolf, Subzero) is that it's a tax on "rich people". They're not better than top-line LG, etc.

I agree on a lot of them. Miele however, my mother's last Miele dishwasher lasted 22 years and they were still selling spare parts up until the day she replaced it. That's pretty unheard of in today's day and age

But that's the Miele of 22 years ago that you are talking about. Not necessarily the one that exists today.

Yup. I tend to prioritize manufacturers like Whirlpool that make service manuals and parts readily available. Sadly Whirlpool is in an ever shrinking minority. Here in the US there are zero advantages to the European brands - parts and service are atrocious adding insult to injury.

Theres more than initial acquisition cost or the looks of the appliance that's worth considering when purchasing!

But if they were selling spare parts for models 22 years ago (assuming recently replaced) then that IS the Miele of today?

That's their service department. The build quality is an entirely different story and Miele stuff in stores today is not of the same quality that it was 22 years ago. And it definitely isn't the same as it was 50 years ago (amazingly: some of that stuff still runs today).

Miele had a definite edge on build quality, that means that services are fewer and farther between than with other brands given the same amount of use.

The joke was that if you wanted to armor plate your car you could do so with the side panels of Miele washing machines. Not too far from the truth, they were also much heavier than competitor gear. But those days are - as far as I can tell - over.

That's unfortunately very true as I've experienced myself.

> They're not better than top-line LG, etc.

Maybe, maybe not. But a lot of those companies haven’t existed for longer than my latest washer.

You buy those brands because you know exactly what you get. Basically guaranteed performance for the next 10 years, and very likely after.

I do wish they didn’t jump on the app bandwagon, but they really have no choice since the rabble wants it. I swear people will pick an appliance with an app simply so they don’t have to press the preheat button on their oven. And you can do it from the couch! Never mind that you don’t ever do that…

"You buy those brands because you know exactly what you get."

No, you won't. Just because you had an appliance that lasted 20 years before doesn't mean you are going to get the same today (you aren't). Energy efficiency standards have affected all manufacturers. Complexity leads to unreliability over time - all manufacturers are affected. Some will still be better than the rest, but if you aren't prioritizing manufacturers who are repair friendly you are going to either be spending multiples of the original cost of your appliance over time, or just flat out replacing them more often.

Or just fix that 20 year old appliance you already have when it breaks (almost always the best answer vs. buying new - with just about anything!)

> I swear people will pick an appliance with an app simply so they don’t have to press the preheat button on their oven.

Absolutely. The other day a colleague described the fact that her washing mashine's app tells her when the program is finished as an essential, must-have feature. I understand that it's useful and nice to have but if you're wearing an Apple Watch anyway, as she does, just set a timer. It's what I do.

> Bosch

is bosch really a "high-end" appliances company? I always considered it mid-range company, producing appliances for the middle-class.

Bosch has a lot of product lines at many levels of quality/value and features. A buddy of mine was an engineer on a project that cloned the Miele G7xxx (their top-of-the-line dishwasher), their version is in the same class as a Miele G7 and the (extremely high) price is comparable too.

Definitely middling quality and design. Our Bosch dishwasher has the worst UI. Nothing exterior at all, only buttons inside the door itself. There's a secret button combo to set the "done" alarm to one of 4 volume settings: too loud, even louder, why is this so f'ing loud, and silent. So you either get a horrible noise that rings intermittently until you open it, or you get to play guessing games.

Our Breville toaster oven has the same loudness settings, but only 3 total. You clearly have the ability to set the loudness - give me a really quiet (but not silent) option damnit. I have a baby in the house.

Just crack it open and either clip the leads to the "speaker" or put a few layers of tape over it. I too hate appliances with loud beeps - or the new annoying trend of playing songs (usually from the Asian manufacturers).

Love my Breville toaster oven though - thing is so stinking versatile and by far the best of any I have ever used. We use it as an oven far more than as a toaster. Perfect for heating/baking most stuff without heating up the entire house like the regular oven does. We have the one that also has the air fry mode - use that mode all the time to cook vegetables that are delicious and a lot healthier too. Did I mention we really love our Breville toaster oven? And to think I originally chose it because it was the only one I could find that had a stinking light inside?

My microwave used to beep 6 times when finished.

Even if you opened the door it would still do all 6 super loud beeps. It became a race to get there with one second left to stop it.

Also every press of any key would emit a loud beep. Stupid.

So I opened it up and snipped the stupid buzzer a while back.

It's so much nicer to have a silent microwave now.

Funny, there is another comment in this thread that counts the interior buttons as a feature. Can't please everyone I guess.

>is that it's a tax on "rich people"

please, rich people don't even notice the cost of these pieces of equipment. the ones that might feel the pinch are the ones punch above their weight class to give of the look the are better off than they are. not much different from classes of cars that look like you make money, but every time you take them to the dealership, minimum $800.

if that's a tax on rich people, then they aren't very rich.

I have to sort-of disagree with you! I've used 100s of dishwashers (used to work at a test lab) and Miele dishwashers are indisputably "better" (more on that below) than anything else on the consumer market, and I would be completely willing to bet you a nice dinner that you would agree after using one. Same for their vacuums, they are on a completely different level of performance than anything else I've used.

All that said, I do not own a Miele dishwasher because it's benefits are not worth the high cost to me, however I have severe allergies and while I hated to pay for it, a Miele vacuum has ruined me for all other vacuums.

*Not a Miele salesman, just love very clean carpets. I'd be thrilled to learn about a cheaper alternative that can remove hair/dander/dust and etc as well from carpets as a Miele can, but so far nothing has come close.

Maybe... uh... get rid of the carpets in favour of your choice of flooring?

If you are renting that might not be an option

True. Hadn't thought of that.

Best thing for carpets is a central vacuum system. Oversize the motor unit and you can get units that will suck up 2" rocks with zero problems. The noisy motor can be located anywhere instead of in the room with you - I love to put it outside in the garage. And as someone with allergies, the biggest advantage of a central vac is it can be plumbed to fart the exhaust outdoors!

And if you have hard surface floors there is nothing faster than pulling out a lightweight flexible hose with a floor brush and running the vac over it. Faster than sweeping and again doesn't stir up dust/dander/hair like sweeping does.

I will never own a house without a central vac. And if you are really OCD about your carpet cleaning there are Wet/Dry central vac systems that have built in carpet cleaners. Will automatically discharge the waste water to the sewer. A bit pricy and exotic but I have a few friends who if they owned such a system would probably use them weekly (and mold the heck out of their carpets too!).

In my opinion “top of the line” any appliance is usually worse than the entry model. Typically it just adds more “features” that introduce additional moving parts, circuit boards, and displays. Rarely if ever do I need these things, and there’s a real hit to reliability.

I’ve been kitting out a new house and the appliance I’ve been most satisfied by far is my Victory Twister range hood. It’s a stainless steel box with a blower, some lights, a couple wires and two rotary switches. I wish I could buy all my appliances without PCBs.

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