Comment by ninjin | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ninjin | Hacker News Reader

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Sadly, this kind of behaviour is on brand when it comes to the UK state. It is less than ten years since Section 5 [1] was reformed to remove the display of “insulting” words and writing in public as an offence (Rowan Atkinson made an excellent speech on the matter back then [2]). However, the overall mentality and other laws are still very much at large.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_5_of_the_Public_Order_...

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiqDZlAZygU

While I still do not claim to fully comprehend British culture, there is always an odd undercurrent of authoritarianism whose chill I can feel now and then – it is worth noting that it bridges the political divide. I have talked about this with my British colleagues and heard numerous explanations, but none that I feel satisfactory. At times when I feel particularly dark I joke about this with said colleagues and say: “You say that you went to war with the Germans on behalf of the free world. But at times I wonder: Was it not that they in a way were outdoing you and you were feeling a bit envious?” Now, clearly this is intended to be offensive and not something that I genuinely believe, but like many jokes, it somewhat works because there is some kernel of truth at its core.

It differs across the UK. In Scotland things are now far worse:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-535...

The SNP are trying to be far more authoritarian than the Tory's at this point.

>You say that you went to war with the Germans on behalf of the free world

Who said that? They definitely ruled over a lot of the non-free world at the time. India? East Africa?

A large part of the world supported the Axis simply because at the time, the British Empire was the relevant empire oppressing them, and by default, anyone who hated the British supported the Germans and/or Japanese.

A possibly apocryphal story is that a Brit was trying to explain to an African why it was necessary to fight the Nazis. He said "each country must rule over its own people, the Germans over Germany, the Poles over Poland, the French over France..." and the African said "..."

Gandhi was firmly against fighting the Germans and Japanese, and many Indians equated fighting for the Axis with fighting for independence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Army

"After the war ended, the story of the INA and the Indian Legion was seen as so inflammatory that, fearing mass revolts and uprisings across its empire, the British Government forbade the BBC from broadcasting their story."

>But at times I wonder: Was it not that they in a way were outdoing you and you were feeling a bit envious?”

Were they? At the outbreak of WWII, the British controlled "25% of the world's population, and of 30% of its land mass".

The phrase "odd undercurrent of authoritarian" itself is particularly odd, because what's odd about a country that ruled over one of the largest, if not the largest, empires of all time having an authoritarian streak?

I agree with you, but this has nothing to do with the point I made. There was no claim as to any “true” nature of WW2 or British imperialism. What I stated was that a large chunk current Britons perceive themselves as having stood up to Hitler and defended freedom for all. Whether this is true or not does not matter with respect to either my joke or perplexity over the fact that authoritarianism is present in UK society to a larger degree than I am comfortable with. If anything, your response is in support of what I stated.

I think a lot comes from Benthamite thinking "it is the greatest happiness of the greatest number that is the measure of right and wrong." So stopping mean tweets can be ok if it makes most people happy. The Nazi thing on the other hand wasn't good for happiness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham

This whole conversation is winding down, but I just wanted to thank you for this comment as it brought me a new perspective on the matter. I have for at least a year had an uneasy feeling about Bentham’s utilitarianism, so your response indicates to me that I should consider it in the light of the tyranny of the masses and perhaps I will find some realisations there (personal or societal) if read more and think about it for a little while.

You don't see a difference in authoritarianism of British "banning the public wishing of mass death" and Nazi "requiring the public wishing of mass death? "

The equivalancy drawn in the joke is part of what makes it funny.

Is it funny? I'm a Brit and I don't really get it. Maybe because my ancestors were German jewish and had to get the hell out. WW2 wasn't really about being envious of the Germans.

He's probably a German.

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