We ban accounts that do that. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not do anything of this sort on HN again, we'd appreciate it.
It's also in your interest, since the primary effect of posting like this on the fair-minded, persuadable part of the audience is to completely discredit the view that you're arguing for. That's a very poor trade for a little venting, and it's particularly harmful if your view happens to be true (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...).
Edit: we've had to ask you this kind of thing more than once before. I don't want to ban you, but we need this to stop happening, so please stop doing it.
[0] https://bcpsea.bc.ca/teachers/collective-agreements/salary-g...
That said, the biggest issue affecting the profession is lack of respect, not pay.
(Nevermind that COVID is no longer an unusual hazard to the fully vaccinated, and everyone has had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated for many months now.)
Besides not contributing to poisoning this place and setting it on fire, that will also make your point of view more persuasive to others.
Where are you getting your numbers?
In California, public education is guaranteed >50% of state spending. That's on top of federal and local spending. (Schools in "rich" areas don't get state funding, so they must locally fund. Some of that locally-raised money is taken by the state.)
Grocery store people work and have contact with far more people....
I suspect I had mixed up federal and total tax revenue %. We're still only talking an avg of $4k per working person for the entire system though, if you take the total funding sans property tax and divvy it up by the working population (90bn, ~30% prop tax, 16.9mil working pop).
I realise the avg isn't going to be representative of the general population, but the marginal utility of money should roughly scale with the amount of that paid per-person.
> Grocery store people work and have contact with far more people.
Honestly not entirely sure of your source on this. I'd suspect that having several hundred students in the same building for an entire day with central AC would be more of a petrie dish than your typical grocery store most of the week.
Since property tax is a huge source of school funding, "sans property tax" is like saying that we're going to ignore taxes paid by folks who live in detached houses.
> > Grocery store people work and have contact with far more people.
> Honestly not entirely sure of your source on this.
Several hundred is a fairly large school, such schools don't have a single HVAC system, AND Covid doesn't work that way.
Moreover, you significantly underestimate store traffic. (Far more people go to grocery stores than go to schools.)
Costcos have 750 parking spaces and they turn-over 10-12x times a day. Even with only one person per car, that's 750 different people/day, >5k/week, or >15k/month. (Schools are the same people every day.) Walmarts are comparable.
Yes, Costco is 2-3x bigger than the typical grocery store but there's still no comparison. Grocery store workers have far more exposure than teachers.
> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
And I have no hostility towards anyone in this conversation. But I'm not above a sharp retort when I'm being condescendingly lectured to based on flawed premises.
They're dishing it out and they can take it too.
This implies a lack of care for social responsibility and a lack of respect for the people that are actually having to take the risk.
While I appreciate the point of view that it isn't quite fair, I'd point out that a) teachers should have a right to health and safety in the workplace, b) social mobility would be obliterated if you could opt out of funding public schools, and c) you're likely arguing this from an office where you're at much lower risk.
It's not a great position to be in, sure. But arguing that we're not being kind in our position when yours seems to be "but they're wasting my money" seems to be borderline misanthropic.
COVID is no more dangerous than the flu for vaccinated people, and has been for many months now. But some teacher's unions are still demanding closures, as documented in the article.
I phrased it in terms of my own checkbook because IMO that makes the principle involved most transparent (moral hazard against payors), but personally my schools are fine. The biggest impacts of no choice are on the most disadvantaged.
Democrats do with teachers what republicans do with cops. This strange do no wrong hero worship. I don't get it. Looking at our stats globally (reading and math scores/police brutality rates) neither deserve praise.
Does your position on this extend to police unions?
Luckily, they failed to destroy her retirement. With her pension along with social security she is comfortable enough. Nobody's ever going to call her wealthy, not even close, but voters would have stripped her of that pension and made her scrape by on social security.
It's easy to hate on public employees, but I don't think they automatically deserve fewer protections than private company employees enjoy.
One silver lining of the shift from defined benefits to defined contributions. At least you're putting in your own money and can expect it to be there when you retire.
Lobbying government is one of the functions of unions, regardless which sector they represent. Better pay and conditions don’t come from employers just playing nice.
https://www.postandcourier.com/archives/s-c-s-hired-guns/art...
Meanwhile so many parents have moved away or gone to private schools, we are worried our local elementary school will close due to the enrollment decline. My wife is on the PTA and has an inside scoop on some of this data.
i actually send my kid to private. for alot of reasons. it costs me 16k a year.
itd be super nice if i could redirect the tax money intended for my child to the school of my choice.
I am 100% against the idea of parents being able to redirect the money they pay in school taxes to private schools. There are a number of things that should be communally paid for, with everyone contributing whether they need it right now or not; education is one of those things in my opinion. Police, Fire Departments, etc are also in that category; you _can_ have them be individually contracted, but it's a bad idea.
Curious on the motivation for this carve-out. There's a bunch of other basic service needs that apply to all children but yet we don't have government-run grocery stores, clothing manufacturers, hair salons, toy makers or book publishers.
Disadvantaged groups are government-subsidized (state-provided health insurance, food stamps, housing subsidies) but the recipients of those funds are typically privately-run.
Is it the concern that in a voucher system private providers will churn out shoddier end product?
Every private school I toured for my kid, has a 100% college placement record.
The one we picked has a 100% ha graduation rate. Including the kids that transfer to public during the HS years (self - reported)
There's statistically less crime at it, they teach Python to 6th graders, ffs.
i want to believe in the public instituion..
but its been ripped up by conservatives, liberals, unions, beaucrats of all kinds, crime, over the top fear responses to crime, and system that acts more out of the protecting itself from legal liability than by a system actually good for kids - with moronic zero tolerance polices and policies that punishes self defense.
its a lost cause. and the public funds should follow the kid.
if public schools cant compete and have to close ? then good.
schools are rotten from the inside out and are beyond fixing.
school boards are ran by motivated, bored assholes with too much free time on their hands and unhealthy obsessions with trendy political agendas.
This will force public schools to compete with what parents actually want for their kids.
If public schools can't attract the funds with making moronic policy, then it's gutted.
If they respond to parental demand, then they stay alive and vital.
But as it stands, most parents are pretty helpless against shitty policy. Schools choice adds some democracy into the situation where beucracy, unions and politicians have eroded it.
I'm done being invested in the noble idea of the institution.
Reality is reality. And public schools are shit holes.
I'm still advocating we educate all children.
I just advocate that the money follows the kid and that the state and teachers union don't get a monopoly control of it.