I've seen this sentiment in other places as well. Everything doesn't have to be coopted into activism for the current cause.
- sadly this is too long to easily fit on a tee shirt or I swear Id have one made right now. You make a very insightful point.
Not that I disagree with your point. This is a place of intelligent discussion which could perhaps benefit Ukrainians better.
The situation with Russia is much about information. HN is about information and IT, no? HN could be the primary forum to discuss ways to counter MIS-information.
There seems to be a deep problem in Russia, its citizens are mostly duped by misinformation pushed by their government. What kind of intelligent solutions exist or could be developed to counter that?
Sure, some people are hoodwinked by the propaganda. However, a weird misunderstanding is that "if they new what the Truth was, they would surely relent".
From what I've gathered growing up in Russia, that's not quite the case. I don't know why, but a lot of people here have a very apathetic view on politics. In that even if they knew all the "real truth", they wouldn't go into "fight mode", but would instead go into "man, same shit as usual, our life's about to get harder" mode.
I've just chatted with some friends who don't support the war effort in any way and are just as dismayed as your average European Joe (Giuseppe??) (and they have relatives in Ukraine too). What struck me really hard is that once again I had a glimpse of this weird mentality, whereby the person laments being in bad circumstances and start doing a lot of planning (and hoping) on how to deal with the coming misfortunes. Taking control of the change and nipping the said misfortune in the bud is just plain out of sight!
With this in mind, the problem that needs to be solved, in my opinion, is the "victim mentality" in the population, rather than the "misinformation", since "solving" misinformation would seem to push people into the usual victim loop.
Just my 2 cents, and I'm no one and my opinion is based solely on more than a decade of life in Russia.
That is why propaganda is so efficient.
For people who ended up supporting the war, yes. Propaganda worked, because constantly filtering misinformation is not exactly conducive to a normal life. Trust is the default mode of operation for a human who did not grow up in adverse conditions.
But grandparent seemed to refer to people who actually live such a life. People who do not support the government and are preparing for the worst. They distrust everything, they see that innocent people are dying and country is headed towards extreme times, but they treat it as impossible to change. This is pretty bleak.
I think the apathy you describe could be to a large degree result of - misinformation. I don't have the answer nor any particular insight on what it's like inside Russia so I appreciate your input. And I think it's a worthy subject for discussion. The western world is not free of misinformation either.
Nevermind, though. I'm just feeling helpless and want to do something. I need to think a little deeper about it.
Do you have any ideas?
Perhaps one consequence of this drift is that people with more radical activist leanings, who are more likely to actually do something, are going to be more likely to hang out and discuss somewhere else rather than here
(i am not pointing any fingers, i haven't engaged in any kind of activism for years and grind away at the IT day job in exchange for salary.)
edit: the above argument lazily conflates people interested in tech industry entrepreneurship with people interested in activism. that doesn't make much sense, both groups will have quite different goals and often be in conflict. but i think there is definitely a drift where much of the people following tech industry news here on HN will be increasingly mainstream & functionally conservative.
Not me!
Also why should the people on this site really care? Honestly I get it is not great but in the grand scheme of things I don't care. I am tired of war, I have watched my friends and family members server in wars for this country since the early 90's. I don't recall Ukraine sending f*ck all for them. As such I just don't have it in me to give a sh*t at this point in time.
Would you care if gangsters showed up at your house and told you that everything you owned now belongs to his gang? Would you care if that happened to your neighbor?
If you think this will never happen to you, think again. This world is a brutal place filled with people that would take from you every single thing you hold dear without a blink of an eye.
This war is the closest we've been to a nuclear war since the Caribbean Crisis in 1962. Especially if Russia wins.
They are NATO countries, so no. People are acting all surprised by this Ukraine invasion but it's been an ongoing thing for many years. This didn't just happen. Even before the coup/revolution in 2014.
Why? Because Latvia and Estonia would sue the rest of NATO for not abiding by the treaty? Is there any other reason the West would not try to prevent a nuclear apocalypse by appeasing Putin with these "token" countries? Does the rest of the NATO countries really want to die for them? Do we really want to test that hypothesis?
Take a look at the Putin's speeches starting with the 2007 one in Munich, and including the ultimatum Russia presented to the West just before the current invasion. Look up the "Escalate to Deescalate" strategy and the Russian nuclear doctrine. Read the Kremlin-funded "historians" and "philosophers" and Putin's own writings on Russia and Ukraine.
so, you're holding against Ukraine that they were peaceful and didn't participated in other countries destructions all this time?
they are asking for help in their survival while being butchered for no reason.
>I am just over caring about everyone else at this point.
i wonder how much have you contributed to humanity to consider your self "over".
I am outraged that there was not the equivalent global outrage over the invasion of Iraq back in the day.
I am pleased that there is outrage today. But the USA, like Russia, is effectively a rouge state.
It is not politics to invade a country. It is crime.