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Comment by akhmatova | Hacker News Reader

If you're two-timing on clients / employers (that is, plainly working two FT jobs at once) -- you can't expect that to end well.

If you're working > 50 hours a week (or whatever your personal limit is) for more than 1-2 months -- that won't end well for your health or business relationships, either.

That's the score, basically.

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You're presenting opinions as if they are absolute facts above questioning. If you have a full-time job and you only need to do ~20 hours a week of work to complete all your deliverables, you could absolutely get another full-time job and have it go fine.

No, it won't "go fine". You'll be lying to both of your employers. That's not "fine" and it can't possibly end well for anyone.

How do you know anyone lied? If you have two fully remote jobs, and the workload for each one is ~20-25 hours a week, and the times don't overlap... I was trying to get you to actually provide reasoning, or evidence, or even "I acknowledge it's my opinion but I feel this way because __________" but here we are with more "I'm right, you're wrong, you're dumb if you disagree."

Please try again because this is a point I'd love to actually discuss rather than just having you talk past me.

Do either of your employers know that (1) you're working for another employer and (2) are actually working 20-25 hours a week when the terms of employment clearly state otherwise (as is almost universally the case with "full-time" employment in the U.S. and just about anywhere else)?

Are you required to tell your employer if you're moonlighting or doing other paid work? I'm not.

Does your employment contract (or the closest thing you have if you work in the US) specify 40 hours a week? Mine doesn't. It says I need to be available during "core hours" which amount to about 17.5 hours a week. It also takes about half a page to basically say "you have to get your assigned work done on time or you may face disciplinary action." If you're available during core hours only, and your stuff gets done, you've fulfilled your end of the bargain.

I've worked placed where you have to have your ass in a seat 42.5 hours a week minus lunch. You can't work there and have another FT job, it's not tenable even for a week or two. But I know a lot of people who either have a FT job and a long-term/large contract position, or two FT W2 jobs simultaneously for months or longer.

Your overly broad "[nearly] universal case" doesn't match the vast majority of the job descriptions I've seen when I was job searching earlier this year. Software development jobs are increasingly remote, and a small subset of those are increasingly asynchronous where they don't care where you are or when you work so long as you get your tasks completed.

Are you required to tell your employer if you're moonlighting or doing other paid work? I'm not.

Actually it's quite common for employment (and even consulting) agreements to have language specifying that you do exactly that -- "devote your full working hours and attention" to their duties for the Company. As well as clauses specifically prohibiting moonlighting (or at least requiring you to declare any such outside relations in writing),

That is: to specifically prevent people from doing what you're doing.

Then do they fire people who only have 1 job but are coasting?

That's a different topic, of course.

My F500 gig specifically allows outside work as long as its not for a competitor...Why would you assume everyone is lying? Wouldn't it make more sense that some of us just have different (full time) employment contracts ?

If it's a "gig" based on deliverables (rather than hours) that's another matter, of course.

But we were speaking of full-time employment in the usual sense. Including the usual sense of "full-time".

sorry - I put this "have different (full time) employment contracts" in my comment to try and make that point clear..

Its full-time employment, salaried. Also, salaried generally means you get paid the same amount regardless of hours worked, which is another thing people seem to overlook.

Anyway, as others have already commented better then I - many big/well known companies do not have issue with moonlighting.

Also, salaried generally means you get paid the same amount regardless of hours worked, which is another thing people seem to overlook.

Except the spirit of that agreement to not worry about the variance of working, say, 35 hours one week, 45 the next. They still quite definitely expect you to work an average of about 40 hours -- and usually provide language in the employment/consulting stating exactly that. In fact, if your agreement mentions the phrase "full-time" it is universally understood to mean exactly that.

Many big/well known companies do not have issue with moonlighting.

Even when outside employment/consulting is allowed (1) the vast majority expect you to inform them of such arrangements and (2) they do not expect you to shorten your commitments of time + focus to the role they are providing you a ... full-time salary and benefits for.

yes - and you assume everyone is lying about it, instead of just telling their manager? and many do not shorten their time..and others work for companies that don't care as long as the work is done.

I stand by my point - there's no reason to assume everyone is 'cheating'...

That point is valid - obviously not everyone is lying. And if all of hour employers/clients are aware of what's going on, then obviously no harm is done.

But people are probably lying (to at least one of their employers), and there seems to be a blasé attitude about it going around: "If I get my work (or a half-ass version of it) done in 20 hours and nobody seems to notice -- why not just try and get away with whatever I can get away with?"

In so many words.

As long as someone's getting their work done, nobody will notice. People have their own problems to worry about. In that respect, it is "fine." Everyone is getting what they paid for: results.

Your score isn't my score.

My F/T job at a FAANG adds up to about 10 hrs/week at most.. sometimes 15 hrs due to extra meetings. Could easily fit in another job, but would rather sit in the sun and read a book.

It's not that you can't (logistically) fit another job in. Just that if you were to - it wouldn't end well. And would be like, you know, dishonest and unethical and all that stuff.

Am with you on the reading a book in the sun part, though. It's good to have that data point as to what people really do with their time out in FAANG-land.

How do you fit 40 hours of work into 10 hours?

Do you have an email address or a contact method?

lots of people work far more than 50 hrs/week on a regular basis, this is not a huge deal if that's your jam. If you're working multiple salaried positions, or double-billing your time, that's a different story.

Of course a lot of people do -- but at a cost to productivity (per hour) and as said, their health and and relationships. There's lots and lots and lots of research about this, actually.

Having a kid is a 2nd job. There is a cost to productivity per hour too and affects their health.

Would you fire them?

No. Because they're infinitely more important and valuable and interesting than any day job you can possibly think of.

All of this industry's propaganda to the contrary notwithstanding.

Even multiple salaried positions might be fine depending on the specifics of each one.

Having a kid is a 2nd job than makes it > 50 hours. Would you fire them?

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