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Comment by kstenerud | Hacker News Reader

Cheating is the natural result of an exclusive funnel for entry into the middle class.

This has been going on for decades in Asia (which is why Chinese students cheat so much), and now America is finally here as well.

Academics like to wax poetic about how students are "only cheating themselves" and "losing out on the educational opportunities", but the reality is much more mercenary and down-to-earth: Either you pass this hurdle by hook or by crook, or you spend the rest of your life flipping burgers. It's not a hard choice.

Once you have the piece of paper (regardless of how you got it), you're in the club. So the goal is to obtain that piece of paper by any means necessary.

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> Either you pass this hurdle by hook or by crook, or you spend the rest of your life flipping burgers. It's not a hard choice.

Yes, but the assumption is you're passing with the knowledge in your head. Having the career knowledge is what in theory allows you to get the job, and then not flip burgers. I'm not sure how students end up thinking it's literally the number of your grade that makes the difference.

Maybe it differs from career to career, because I guess some careers it's a matter of getting your foot in the door and that's it. With more technical careers it's already the case your grade is not as important as demonstrating expertise in the first few months on the job.

> I'm not sure how students end up thinking it's literally the number of your grade that makes the difference.

Because it literally is true. Students aren't stupid; they know that higher education is largely a sham, and that the number they get and the prestige of the institution is what makes the difference (beyond simply having the paper - which is the most important part of course) in their entry level to the middle class or upper-middle-class workplace. The actual content of their education is largely irrelevant for most places that require it. Only the number matters.

And cheating isn't the only symptom of this problem; grade inflation is another. Both students and faculty are responding rationally to the unspoken truth. To NOT cheat is to increase the risk of living a life of poverty. To NOT inflate grades is to condemn more of your students to that life. Honor codes only mean something in places where everyone is of similar privilege.

As the metric becomes less indicative of reality, the smart people find more creative ways to game it.

Yeah fair point, and it's unfortunate it is that way. I wonder how much the Internet has contributed to this because schools used to be the only source of information in many cases but now a lot of that is easily searchable.

> as important as demonstrating expertise in the first few months on the job.

But you must get the job first and you generally get a job with a resume. Doesn't matter what is in your head. You better have enough on a one page piece of paper to make people believe you know it. A grade is one piece of evidence you can use for that.

This is the simplest and most accurate summary I've seen so far. Unless you're a wolf or extremely lucky, without a degree there is no way to get into a 40-50 hour per week job where you can get paid a car, a nice apartment, and vacations at no risk to your own finances. Middle-class jobs are the pinnacle of non-aristocratic luxury.

> This has been going on for decades in Asia

I’m no sinologist, but isn’t this off by at least an order of magnitude if not two? The imperial civil service exam is famous after all and the Chinese culture is millennia ancient. The incentives for cheating have been around for a very long time.

Call me an elitist but this is where I like the French "Grandes Ecoles" system: - public educations gets you a 2 year intensive training leading up to a competitive exam with one branch towards engineering schools and one branch towards business schools - the competitive exam is the real deal, and it's not really "cheatable": you get your chair in a room with ample space for a few days, a few hours/day on row, and a guy in each room monitoring the exam, no cellphones, until you have taken all subjects - the results allow you in one or more schools, and of course accessing the really best schools implies outstanding level in the exam - ... and indeed, after that, you get the sesame and no-one cares if you chest while in school, actually nobody cares about your grades there, just that you get the diploma ...

No, none of this is new and it didn't start in Asia. People have always cheated and always will.

Great summary. Might have to save this.

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