Comment by Jistern | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Jistern | Hacker News Reader

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Your comment is extremely misleading.

Modern militaries are rapidly transforming into what was science fiction, say, 50 years ago: almost exclusively remote-controlled robots and primarily (or even exclusively) autonomous robots.

If you call small, unmanned, armored vehicles "tanks" you are misleading people.

In modern militaries, whether it be surface ships, submarines, airplanes, tanks, etc.... within another few decades, people almost certainly won't be inside of them. People will control them remotely and/or algorithms/artificial intelligence will control them.

What we are seeing in Ukraine is Russia and NATO disposing obsolete military weapons in a disgusting farce of a war. Washington and Moscow should have divided up Ukraine like they did much of Europe in the waning days of World War II.

There was no need for a single bullet to be fired, let alone mortars and missiles. Washington antagonized Moscow ceaselessly. Eventually, Moscow took the bait. It's tragedy that could have, and should have been avoided.

Nonetheless, just because these days you see men in tanks fighting in Ukraine on your phone or laptop, don't think that "Tanks are still relevant in modern warfare!" They aren't. Tanks, by which I mean large vehicles with people inside of them, are obsolete in modern warfare.

People who claim tanks are still viable in modern warfare are either fools, liars, or manipulative purveyors of falsehoods who enjoy twisting words by referring to small, unmanned robots as "tanks."

The Economist.com is yet another legacy media property that regularly engages in obvious yellow journalism in a doomed struggle to remain profitable. Articles with headlines like, "Does the Tank Have a Future?" are clickbait.

I didn't take the bait; I didn't read the article. Why should I have? A better article would have been, "Does Economist.com Have a Future?"

This is a complete misunderstanding of warfare. Drones cannot take and hold ground. Without infantry, an external power cannot exert influence over an area. Sure, they can wantonly kill civilians, but that doesn't mean they are in charge. Until and unless autonomous drones with general artificial intelligence can be mass-produced and deployed on the scale of infantry brigades, massed infantry will be required. Even then, an EMP could disable those drones in one fell swoop.

They are absolutely not disposing of obsolete weapons -- and the West has no desire to "carve up Ukraine". How did Washington antagonize Moscow? NATO is a voluntary defensive pact. The Eastern European countries, who all have a long history of being oppressed and occupied by Russian (and Soviet) governments, asked to join NATO. What good would it do for the West to start a war? What is there to gain from brinksmanship when the stakes are a strategic nuclear exchange?

The idea that this war is at all something provoked by the West, or in any way defensive on Russia's part, is pure Russian propaganda. The Putin regime fears the democratization of its neighbors resulting in its own people losing confidence in its ability to lead the country. This phase of the war is merely an extension of Russia's desire to quash any semblance of Ukrainian agency -- this war started in 2014, after the last vestige of Russia's control over Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovich, fled the country.

Finally, your view actively denies the Ukrainian people their agency. If they did not find this war worthwhile, if they did not think Ukraine as an idea was worth defending, why are they dying in their tens of thousands to defend it?

Putin himself tells everyone that his goal is conquering territories, Eastern Europeans tell everyone that Russian goal is conquering territories, yet people on the internet are still parroting "NATO's fault". I wish everyone read the book Bloodlands first before supporting Russians in their cruel conquests.

> The Eastern European countries, who all have a long history of being oppressed and occupied by Russian (and Soviet) governments.

Several of these countries were created by the actions of Russian government.

That narrative will really have to go in favor of much more granular approach to post-WW2 history.

> Several of these countries were created by the actions of Russian government.

Which ones?

I think that's Bulgaria, Romania and Moldavia, but maybe more. And, of course, Ukraine and Belarus. Maybe some of Balkan states as well if you count them as eastern european.

OK, and Russia caused the pogroms and a genocidal famine in Ukraine. It's not a good idea to learn your country's history in an overly rosy way. In fact, being kind to nationalists may have caused the present war. Russians should know that their country has had a sordid history.

Soviet regime has caused famine in present day Ukraine, southern Russia, Volga region and Kazakhstan. Most of those who starved (arithmetically) were in what is present day Russian Federation.

Are you sure you can tell propaganda from history?

"Russia caused the pogroms" (sic) is another gem of same quality.

I wonder if you could point to a country which does not have "sordid history". But if you ever want to have a dialogue with Russian as opposed to war, you can start by not pretending that you don't have your own "sordid history" and is allowed to judge others.

> I wonder if you could point to a country which does not have "sordid history". But if you ever want to have a dialogue with Russian as opposed to war, you can start by not pretending that you don't have your own "sordid history" and is allowed to judge others.

Indeed. And the problem is nationalism. Every country has had a shameful past. But Putin, that fascist and crackpot, who Russians largely admire, is in denial about that.

It can be said of Ukraine. Its nationalistic desire to be a solid Ukrainian nation ("above everything else"), instead of a federation comprised of very diverse parts for whom just being together requires a lot of searching for a middle ground and compromises.

>...But if you ever want to have a dialogue with Russian as opposed to war...

As opposed to the war ...indeed.

Here it goes again, everyone still needs to learn how to treat russians.

Well, finally, the world has figured it out and summarized it succintly in the manner russia treats the rest of the world:

"Russian ship go f...!"

That's the gist of it. Human history is war.

Even Fukuyama has now retracted his paradigm that the history is over.

Prepare for a lot of war, hope you enjoy it. And not even with Russia.

> "Russian ship go f...!"

I think that phrase is a fake. However, these guys were captured, then declared dead, then surrendered and kept in captivity for some time. To put that in perspective. And that is real.

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