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Comment by rr888 | Hacker News Reader

I moved to this country, one of the reasons was great education system. Now I'm here it seems really confusing and overwhelming. Lots of tiger moms pressing overworked kids to get into Ivy league, and so much wokeness. The problem being that Ivy students really dont sound like they're smart or creative, they seem just people who are out of touch with humanity, doing what they're told on the first step of the corporate rat race.

I definitely think the big famous schools are great for post-grad, but undergrad I'm not so sure. I'm thinking of some cheap local college is good enough and save the money.

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This isn’t really a fair stereotype of Ivy League undergrads at all. Parental pressure doesn’t translate into admission as much as you might think, given how transparently manufactured their applications end up looking.

The Ivy League graduates I know went there because they were naturally high achievers, more or less. They liked being challenged, accepting challenges, and working hard to complete them. Ivy Leagues deliver challenges and high expectations non-stop. Anyone who isn’t naturally the type of person to seek out and complete challenges isn’t going to last long there.

> I'm thinking of some cheap local college is good enough and save the money.

I really don’t understand this notion that Ivy League universities are somehow no better than community colleges. Everything from the faculty to the coursework to the buildings and resources are world-class. It really is a step above and I do encourage ambitious young people to take a serious look at top-tier universities, including (but not limited to) Ivies. The benefits are very real, but only for people who want that level of challenge.

On the other hand, if your goal is simply to graduate college and move on then Ivy League would be a terrible choice. They really are much more difficult.

> The Ivy League graduates I know went there because they were naturally high achievers, more or less.

Surely that's not the only factor.

Wealth still seems to be a key factor in admissions. 67% of students at Harvard are from the top 20%, just 4.5% from the bottom 20%.[1]

And various forms of discrimination remain. Asian Americans, in particular, have sued because Harvard discriminates against them in admissions, and:

"Harvard’s internal statistical analyses, released over the course of the lawsuit, revealed that the [subjective] personal ranking carried the most weight and the academic ranking the least."[2]

1: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobilit...

2: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths...

>I really don’t understand this notion that Ivy League universities are somehow no better than community colleges

It has not been my experience that their graduates are any better educated than less prestigious universities. Post graduation at the undergrad level their value seems to be just the prestige of the university’s reputation on a resume and the social network it offers to other graduates for upward mobility.

I am being honest, I’d consider a degree from Ivy League university a possible negative for an job candidate if I am hiring. One, it speaks to a likelihood of a possible wealthy background growing up and my three decades of experience, I have not found that to be a consistent precursor to capability of the candidate. Two, it creates a higher likelihood that a recent graduate would use my opportunity as a quick stepping stone to the next big thing sooner rather than later.

Thanks for taking the time to reply on this. Like I said I'm relatively new here and dont really have a good feel of the different university cultures. I see lots of other families put a lot of pressure on kids and do extra-curriculars because "that is what admissions wants". My natural inclination is to recommend my children is do what I did, work studiously but also have a life. I dont really know if this is good or not until its too late.

> if your goal is simply to graduate college and move on then Ivy League would be a terrible choice. They really are much more difficult.

I'm not sure what you meant about this. To me most undergrad courses aren't that different from school, if you're using the same text books, similar curriculum it doesn't really matter so much where you are. For post-grad yes the differences make more of an impact.

In the wake of the admissions scandals, I'm not so convinced that the Ivy elite are really as special or gifted as you say. If anyone who gets in on a golfing coach's bought recommendation can complete the coursework with all these supposed high achievers, then something seems off. If you define high achievement/accepting challenges as devotion to the institution and a willingness to do whatever it takes to enter and graduate, then I think the picture comes into better focus. Just my take - I'm certainly not Ivy material myself.

Cheap local colleges are good “enough” but it also depends on the student body, teachers and community.

I personally have come to the conclusion that if you’re an American, you will benefit more from doing it a bit DIY via Western Governors University while you live abroad. That’s what I did and I’m glad for the experience, I was able to enroll into local universities in Japan and complete a Bachelors at WGU.

It’s a great talking point when it comes up for the HR screenings and credits transfer to higher education if I want - but I don’t think I need more than a bachelors.

If short of WGU I’d say find a program abroad that is recognizable by a USA credit body.

Credentialism is a scam, our corporations are soaking up too much talent and this latest round of layoffs shows that the corps don't know what to do with the mess of half talented half nots they hired.

You are right but for all the wrong reasons.

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